MSNBC news guy Thomas Robert knows a thing or two about being victimized. Not only was he molested at a Catholic school, but he’s a suicide attempt survivor. What’s great about Roberts’ video is that it doesn’t just tell kids "it gets better," which anyone can read from a note card, but offers a real mental picture of how to escape the shitstorm of youth. [via Queerty]
0about 21 hours ago - 21 comments
If you want to learn how to measure the vast distance between “tolerance” and “acceptance,” join the Boy Scouts of America. Yesterday, 61% of 1,400 voting members of the BSA’s National Council voted to “remove the restriction denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation alone.” Before you start writing “thank you” letters More >
about 1 day ago - 27 comments
Well, that’s rich. US house representive Jim Bridenstine took the floor in the House this week calling out “the left” (implying something like this exists in US politics) for their “intolerance” of demanding gay youth to be allowed into the boy scouts. Because, you know, if you want everyone to be treated equal you’re being More >
about 4 days ago - 16 comments
Queer News French president Hollande signs marriage equality into law Man killed In 5th anti-gay hate crime this month in New York Ukraine lawmakers demand ban on Kiev gay pride parade Girl arrested & expelled from school over gay relationship Other News US government spied on news agency’s phone records Australia secretly starts censoring internet More >
about 1 week ago - 26 comments
Queer News Italian PM blocks gay unions plan from own equality minister Hong Kong transgender woman wins right to marry partner Ukrainian parliament drops proposed gay anti-discrimination bill People protest against homophobia in Chile and Cuba Nintendo disables same-sex marriage in popular game Other News US engaged in torture after 9/11, independent review finds Porn’s More >
about 1 week ago - 3 comments
Adventure Time Voice Actor Jeremy Shada | More of him here & here +137
about 2 weeks ago - 11 comments
Photo by Saqi. Find him on Tumblr or our own milkboard. +133
about 2 weeks ago - 30 comments
Queer News Iceland: World’s first openly gay prime minister quits politics Estonia: 35,000 sign petition to oppose marriage equality Italian equal opportunities minister resigns over homophobia US Boy Scouts may start allowing in gay kids but not adults McDonald’s worker harassed by management for being too gay Other News UK internet providers collaborate on government More >
about 3 weeks ago - 26 comments
Submitted by Mike This is Jamie Sanders. He’s not only good at dancing, he also has a lovely voice (NSFW)… …to find out more about that you can check out his performances at Helix +87
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about 2 years ago
This P.S.A. campaign slogan makes me throw-up a little in my mouth every time i read/hear it.
about 2 years ago
Really? Why? I mean, sure, there is some that sound just phony and rehearsed (but even those I value), but most of them I find rather inspiring.
Hope is a weird thing. There is an autobiographical book by a former hustler, Matty Lee, with the title “35 Cents”. It may not be a very good book, but for me it was a very important book. In it, Matty says that “hope keeps the misery in place”, and I believe that is true. The world is a crappy place, it is cruel and fickle and unreliable. Not just people, but fate. And there is little you can do about it. Blindly clinging to the hope that it isn’t so can destroy you.
But the world is also a bloody big place. There is a lot of it. And it’s all different. And the one thing about leaving school is that you get to find your place in it. And that is what I think part of these messages are about. As a kid you’re pretty much bound to the place and society your rents dropped you in, and for most the internet is the only escape at all. (You can run away of course, but it sure has to be bloody bad before I’d advise that. Though it beats suicide, for a while at least.) But once you’re on your own, you can go where you will be appreciated for who you are. And even if the journey there may be long, and hampered by set-backs, it is possible – and worth attempting.
The other thing these messages tell us, is that our societies are changing. I know that all the conservative farts keep complaining they are changing for the worse, and there may be areas where they are even right, but on the whole they are changing for the better. Do you want to live in the 1960s? In 1930s? In the 19th Century? For those of us who are queer (just as for many other minorities or marginalized groups) things already are unimaginably better than they were for our rents or their rents. That does mean that some conflicts become visible (and painful) that for centuries have been kept under covers. But on the whole those pains are healing pains. It sucks for any of us who have to get through them – but there is an end to the tunnel, and we are beginning to see the light there.
So I say, this is a great campaign. If it sometimes stumbles a bit (eh, Mr. Bieber), so what? It is stumbling on a march in the right direction, and all those walking it are doing so for the good.
about 2 years ago
Great comments, Fox. I totally agree. And, I also read 35 Cents. Not a great a book, you’re right but I found it wholly readable.
I’m sorry to do this, but I couldn’t get past your use of ‘rents in an otherwise formal, mature, and thoughtful piece of writing. I’m just curious why you chose to do that. Like I said, sorry if I its seems trivial. I know it is, if that helps.
about 2 years ago
Hmm. Never thought about it. I suppose I use the word “rents” for those who by law or biology have been shouldered with the responsibility to care for kids. Most of them suck at it. I think I reserve the word “parent” for those who actually take that job seriously and behave responsibly. Unfortunately those deserving of the word are few and far between. (But then I really wasn’t trying for a style reward. Just giving you my tuppence… ^_^)
about 2 years ago
Thanks
about 2 years ago
I beg to disagree with you mes amis, but I think Matty Lee’s book “35 Cents” is outstanding. It’s more real and better written than a lot of the crap I see in the replies here.
about 2 years ago
Hey, mate, I didn’t mean to diss the book at all. I love that book, and as I said, it means a lot to me. I just have no idea if it is any good as literature. Maybe it is. But if it isn’t, that doesn’t make it any less true. That was all I was trying to say.
about 2 years ago
Hey guys, I was “molested” for years at the Catholic school I went to and loved every minute of it. It is exactly what PREVENTED me from committing suicide. No one ever brings up all the great stories out there, just all these wusses who are some kind of moral freaks.
about 2 years ago
Bobby, society has decided through the medical and psychological community, that those stories are not positive but the extreme symptoms of abuse. The psychologist would most likely call you a hypersexual which is just another way of saying Nymphomaniac or Satyr. And we all know how that’s BAD, right?
Legally as a minor you had not right to decide it was ok and that you liked it because you weren’t significantly brainwa…developed to know better.
Welcome to the hypocritical world we live in. I did not go to a Catholic school, but I loved touching and being touched very early. Im labeled a hypersexual too. Oh yeah, and several other psychological ‘dysfunctions’, the new clinical term for sick.
I dont think we or anyone here is sick. What is sick is how society in all its multiple forms tries to fold, spindle and mutilate you to fit the accepted shape.
Thank our formative traditions for that… the Church, Religion and the hatred of anything different.
about 2 years ago
Are you kidding me? Just because you got a craze from getting molested doesn’t make others a wusse. Do you realize how traumatizing that is for a kid? Having a grown adult who they are supposed to trust force themselves on them? To feel that they can’t tell anyone because they did something wrong is a terrible thing. Just because you had so much going on in your life that being molested made you feel good about yourself doesn’t mean that other kids have it like that. These kids look to their priest to be a mentor but instead they get sexually abused and traumatized. Your a sick human being.
about 2 years ago
So, Colin why don’t you tell YOUR story of how some priest molested you and traumatized your life. It would be interesting to hear how and why you were so helpless that you never did anything to stop it. Because if you don’t have such a story to tell, then you don’t really know all that much about it, whereas apparently Bobby BJ does know something about it and he therefore has a right to share his experience and opinion on the subject. Watch out when you decide to call somebody you don’t have the slightest chance of knowing a “sick human being”, particularly when all YOU have to go on to make up an “opinion” is something you read in some sensationalist or hysterical newspaper or magazine.
about 2 years ago
Thomasdosborneil, Bobby BJ was the one to make a bizarrely closed minded statement, calling all the kids who don’t seem to get much pleasure out of being molested by older people ‘wusses’. So in no disrespect, Colin had all the right to make the comment that he did. I have known people who have been incredibly effected by curtain situations which often lasted years. Even when it is years in the past. So tell yourself what you must to make you feel better about what you’re doing to those little boys
, but don’t accuse other people for doing wrong, when they’re blatantly doing the right thing.
about 2 years ago
I’m reluctant to even comment here as Bobby’s comment is so insanely atypical as to most likely be the work of a damaged mind or a troll.
I can actually believe, that in some way, he may have enjoyed every minute of it. Adults are very good at fucking with a kid’s mind so that they comply with their desires. His nick, and his comments stink to me, of someone trying to get a thrill out of discussing child sexual assault.
But just for you thomas, I also was assaulted, when I was about 13, and then again at 15. When I was 13, my mind was fucked with by a couple of members of our church, and it gave me serious sexual hang ups that lasted right through puberty. When I was 15, it was actually a stranger, who sexually assaulted me in a car. I was carrying a knife at the time, but I was too afraid to use it. Afterwards, I felt that my inability to use the knife, must have meant that I wanted it, even though I knew I didn’t. I felt incredibly guilty. What especially fucked me up, was that I orgasmed, even though I didn’t want to. The confusion of that, coupled with the fact that I was either in denial, or simply hadn’t yet figured out that I was gay, scarred me into my 20s, and may even have prevented me from going on to form gay relations earlier in my life.
My family were powerfully homophobic; my mother was a religious zealot who believed the church could do no wrong, and that even masturbation was a capital crime.
So if you want to f….ng speak about damage thomas, I can speak damage from experience. Now why don’t you stop being an ass and take the logical, rational sane words of colin’s post in the voice of sanity that they were posted and give it a rest.
Sometimes, I get so effing sick and tired that in this place, there always has to be someone standing up for the stupidest, most depraved post.
In actual fact, I’d be the first one to argue that sexual contact with minors, is not in and of itself harmful – it’s the emotional response of the minor, as shaped by the morality of the society in which they live that does the harm. But the bottom line is, we ALL live in a society in which contact between kids and adults is considered morally unacceptable, so it will almost inevitably be emotionally damaging, unless perhaps initiated by the youth.
The fact that bobby uses the word “molested” implies that even he views the events as an assault too.
about 2 years ago
Excellent post, Kyle. Thanks for bringing some rationality to the discussion.
about 2 years ago
Kyle, I will try to answer as clearly as I can so that we can move beyond the “knee-jerk” thinking. The word “molest” is almost utterly useless as a communication, because it can be applied to anything from a Dad or an Uncle having anal sex with a baby, to an 8-year old altar boy getting fondled by a priest, to a 16-year-old boy getting a blowjob from his swimming coach, to an 18-year-old boy having vaginal sex with his 17-year-old girlfriend, with an infinite variety of acts and age combinations and power dynamics all the way along the continuum. Yet people in this society hear that one word “molest” and they go crazy with “Oh my God, the lifelong trauma, the evil monsters, crimes worse than murder, castrate them, warn everybody about them, don’t let them live anywhere where there is a child within a mile of them, hound them wherever they go for the rest of their life, the death penalty is actually too good for them!” To have this kind of reaction every time is hysterical. Why not analyze the actual situation?
In my view, the scale is very, very “sliding”. I think the younger the victim is, the worse it is (and the older the victim is, the less serious it is). I think penetration is worse than “touching”. I think anal is worse than vaginal, but I think any such activity is worse for girls than for boys, because for girls sex is a more meaningful act than it is for boys, who are generally quite happy to (a) sow their seed, (b) stick their dick into anything, and (c) cum as much as possible. Regarding oral sex, I think being made to give it is worse than being made to receive it. So, ultimately, I would go so far as to say that, for example, that a 17-year-old boy receiving a blow job from a person not an older adult relative isn’t even BAD at all…particularly because the teenager LET HIM DO IT.
I also believe that “age of consent” is a legal fiction. Understand that children become physically mature probably a good six or eight years before the most common age of consent considers them old enough to even choose to have sex. I was having some kind of mutually-attempted sex with boys my age or a little older ever since I was 10 (that’s what sleep-overs were FOR!). Looking back at it from my current perspective, I see that I certainly wasn’t the least bit harmed by the sex I was having and I know that I was mature enough and aware enough to “consent” to the sex that I had. Is there ANYONE here who did not have somewhat the similar experience? Or did you all not touch another human body sexually until you were 18 and THEY were also (and have you been a liar all your life, or just recently)?
Oh, I see, what matters is WHO you do it with. If you and your friends jack each other off, it’s okay, but if the priest jacks you off, it’s “molestation” and a trauma to mess you up for the rest of your life. Why? Because he “betrayed your trust in him?” Well wake up…people can’t be trusted.
It would have more helpful, Kyle, if you actually answered the question I posed, which I don’t think you did. WHY were you so helpless that you did not stop your “molestations”? At the age of 13 and 15! Why could you not say “No thank you” or “Get the fuck away from me” or “I don’t like what you think you want to do so excuse me while I get away from here” or what? I honestly want you to explain it to me. Do you not think that I, too, was a child living in the world? Did I live in an isolated bubble, or walk around with four machine-gun toting armed guards? I was very sweet, very friendly, very attractive, and I travelled all over the city by myself (a child of the 50s), and was very active in things like children’s theater (where there for sure were more than the average concentration of gay men who just MIGHT have wanted to play around sexually with a very pretty and talented boy), and yet I was NEVER “molested”. And why not? Because I was aware of my personal power, which means that nobody could make me do what I didn’t want to do (not without a gun or maybe three other people), and if I DID want to do something, I didn’t “traumatize” over it for the rest of my life because some bozo said it was a “sin”. I knew how to make my OWN decisions.
The one thing that I am getting more and more sick of the longer I read things on Milkboys is how helpless gays seem to THINK they are (no wonder straights can’t stand them…they are the push-overs of the world). They commit suicide because their mother is a Mormon and she says that being gay is a sin. Well, my mother never said anything good about homosexuality (I was born in 1948, remember), but did THAT stop me? Does it ever stop ANYBODY? Reminder: homosexuality has been around since the beginning of human history, yet homosexuals were ALWAYS around, having sex, surviving the best they knew how and sometimes even thriving. There are homosexuals finding each other and having sex with other in the MIDDLE EAST where they can executed for it. Yet now there is an epidemic of gay youth killing themselves because they got bullied in school. Or there are, apparently, guys who just sit by and let guys “molest” them–I don’t mean RAPE, which is by FORCE and usually in a situation where the victim is utterly overpowered–but some old man priest wants to diddle with their dicks and they just LET HIM? Don’t tell me that “great and powerful Priest of Oz” can make you do this because he is, gasp, a PRIEST (or a coach, or whatever it is that they are)…if I were to buy that story, then I would have to buy that people are way more unable to take care of themselves than I ever thought. The priest or coach or whoever right then and there PROVED that he was a very bad man, or at least a sick man, and it takes a very special kind of stupid to not understand that instantly and to not stop him from doing what you don’t want him to do.
Are you beginning to understand this “wuss factor” that Bobby BJ was probably referring to?
And if that’s not enough, why are people mentally hanging onto it forever, even to the extent of being a middle-aged man who causes the arrest and trial of some guy who is 85 years old and near death? Leave it alone, already! With all the psychiatrists and psychologists and counselors of every possible stripe, these people still manage to retain that trauma decades after it happened? The trauma of what, somebody’s thumb and forefinger stroked their dick for three minutes, something they do to themselves for, say, twenty minutes, twice a day for the next 60 years? I’d say, let’s get real, okay, let’s move on in life. Why do people allow this to be so “damaging?” Why don’t they go live in Iraq or some place and find out what the TRUE dangers in life are…like some trigger-happy American soldier machine guns your whole family in your car at a check-point or a bomb blows up in your house and you lose both your arms and your legs. Now, those are traumas.
Finally, there are people coming out of the woodwork stating a particular truth, and that is that they wanted the sex they received and were thankful for it (these are not eight-year-old anal rape victims, but they MIGHT be horny teenagers like Bobby BJ). I remember reading an article about some PE coach who some WUSS turned in for “molesting” him and it ends up that that coach lived in a high rise building with balconies up and down the sides and boys were CLIMBING UP THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING to get into his apartment where he would pay them $10 to give them a blowjob! I repeat that in case your mind didn’t absorb it–they climbed up the side of his building to get blow jobs from him. Repeatedly. It is only a FICTION of the law that puts a man like that into prison…that the boys aren’t mature enough to “consent” to the sex that they climbed up a high rise to get for themselves (or to sell themselves to obtain).
People do have power over very young children, and very young children do not really understand what is going on. But teenagers are not in that category. Teenagers understand what they want and don’t want, and are powerful enough to get it, or not, as they choose.
And the honest revealing of that is why I supported Bobby BJ against the instant jumping down his throat and his being called a very sick person. And yet you think he is so depraved that he probably isn’t even a real person, but a troll trying to get a rise out of everybody. Please wake up to reality. Maybe this is not EVERYBODY’S reality, but it certainly is the reality for some.
about 2 years ago
I am happy for you that you had a positive experience, Bobby. But that doesn’t seem to me what this campaign (and blog post) is about. I hope you are not trying to imlpy that there isn’t a lot of homophobic and narrow-minded arseholes out there, and that there is a lot of kids (who have only a very limited choice in where they live, or what people they are surrunded by) that are in a position where they feel hopeless and very, very alone. The campaign is a reaction to the recent wave of (reports about) teen suicides, and it is speaking to those kids in danger of despair, trying to tell them to hang on a little longer, and not give up.
Independent of whether you personally were hurt or enjoyed your own childhood or teenage years, wouldn’t you agree that hanging on and notgiving up is a positive and worthwhile message?
about 2 years ago
I am probably cynical, but this ‘It will get better’ campaign is the exact WORDS I heard for years from my parents when I was being bullied and beaten in school. It is telling kids to be patient, accept this and someday you too will fit in and find people more accepting. But they don’t accept as much as ignore. Hatred does not go away. It is easy to hate. It is a thoughtless process. I realize now fighting back was the only choice, and drop the hope of being ‘normal’ and ‘acceptable’ outside of your group. Yes, society as a whole is more accepting because more families are finding they have at least one gay in their midst.
But the traditions that shape our society labels gays as ‘deviant’, ‘sick’ so obviously you can be ‘healed’, and such lovely words as ‘queer’, ‘disgusting’ and ‘perverted’…. none of which is true in the world of animals, but then that tradition comes in saying we are above the animals, and know better through original Sin, which is why we have religion to save us from our revolting animalistic behavior.
I have one thing to say to all that.
Fuck you.
So for the one or two out there that still are ‘radical’ to buck the status quo… you are not alone.
about 2 years ago
Do you get the feeling that the message implies not to fight back? I fought back (eventually). Not certain I would advise it to everybody, the price was considerable. But no matter if you fight or not, isn’t the message only to not give up?
about 2 years ago
I really liked the George Takei vid that calls out the school board homophobe. I tend to take on the “Fuck’em all” type attitude to bullying.
about 2 years ago
I liked it too. George is a good representative. He has enough of a confrontational nature to back them up while being reasonable. At least in so far as this culture accepts ‘reason’.
about 2 years ago
I liked his video as well until he got off on the tangent of rent boys from South America and I’m thinking ‘where the hell did that come from?’ It makes a point, but I still think it’s in bad taste and counterproductive to this vid’s message.
about 2 years ago
I think the hardest message to convey to young people is that it is the very DIFFERENCES you have that make you so VALUABLE and WONDERFUL. That’s the message Thomas Robert is trying to get across in this video. I struggle with this message every day with my own kids. It’s a hard one, because to be honest, I still struggle with it every day in my own life. I truly know that my differences are what makes me wonderful, but the crap people throw my way still feels like crap. As for this campaign, I think the more videos the better — none of them will be perfect, but in massive numbers the message will get through far better than a very limited number of totally slick PR jobs. It’s the YouTube moment in history, we accept less than perfect, we can see that it’s the real thing, and watching the likes of Bieber stumble makes him all the more human.
about 2 years ago
Reality check! It doesn’t always get better. Being gay, open or suspected, means that you will not be welcome in many jobs or areas. No matter what your dreams people will find a way to fire your ass, refuse to rent to you, or worse. You may love living in Montana but your schoolmates may not love you and finding happiness in a city is not the dream of those who grew up in the open spaces. Social/economic realities leave millions of gay people in unfriendly surroundings and basically are told if they don’t like it move, when moving is impossible and involve leaving the place they grew up and love. Closets offer little protection. Being male, over 35 and single makes you a sexual suspect. If you are gay you may be limited to satisfying your sexual needs in dark corners unable to have an emotional component. It gets better? Ask the teacher in a private who loves their job more than anyone will ever know but gets fired for any reason the administration can come up with because they think he’s gay. They will never say that to his face but its there. It doesn’t always get better so prepare to duck and cover. Also be prepared to settle for less than your dreams. No small town bungalow where you can sit on the front porch swing with your boyfriend, no job security. It gets better? That’s like saying we’ve solved the problem of racism in America. The evil doers will always be there and they will always have the power to destroy you if you don’t match their version of normal. The best message for gay kids is to get streetwise and prepare for hardships. We are a minority.
about 2 years ago
Youth aren’t stupid, but open to guidance and suggestion. You can tell youth to prepare for hardship yes, but to give them the idea that their role in the world will always be far worse than anybody else, is a bad message overall. Their initial knee-jerk reaction will be ‘what’s the point?’ and let suicide win.
I hope we’re all in agreement here that suicide and suicide attempts aren’t chic and a viable way out of this life. The biggest ‘closet’ of all is to believe that your life will be pointless no matter what you do and where you go…they win, period.
about 2 years ago
Point is not the ‘it becomes simply wonderful later’, but that it ‘gets better’, simply.
It does, if only because one is older one can manage the situation better. A 13yo can often just see despair.
It never gets brilliant (for anyone, this life’s shit!), but it does get better, even if marginally.
about 2 years ago
I don’t know, but maybe for many of you, it actually doesn’t get better. That’s the impression that’s beginning to solidify. But I really do find that hard to believe.
I feel that what these videos are saying is that HIGH SCHOOL, and the kind of life you live in high school and all that comes with it, comes to an end. That was certainly my experience and I have been saying that whole “it gets better” thing ever since about 1966, and I meant it for everybody (it has nothing to do with anyone’s sexuality–there are plenty of straight people bullied or miserable in high school, too). For high school is some bizarre unique kind of misery that feels at the time like it is all that life is, and yet it actuality it is nothing but a colonic diverticulosis. After you graduate, everything completely changes. All those popular football player types become fat, balding old men as soon as their thirties, doing nothing in life but sitting around drinking beer “with the guys”, rehashing old touchdowns, and the hot popular cheerleader types of girls become haggard housewives going to WalMart with curlers in their hair. Those to whom high school was a perfect dream (and often they were the exact ones who made high school miserable for everybody else) ended up discovering that high school was the PEAK of their lives. For THEM, it never got any better, they HAD their better and now it was done.
But we who had brains or talent or humor or an awareness of our uniqueness and individuality or a sense of compassion and human kindness became in hundreds of different ways successful and happy. I am right this very minute the happiest I have ever been in my entire life. I, and all the people like me, do NOT still live in high school. You’re damned right it gets better, incredibly better. And if for some reason it hasn’t, you might want to do some serious soul-searching to figure out why. It certainly isn’t because “other people won’t let you.” Other people don’t give a damn about you or what you are doing unless you are bothering them. So don’t bother them and then you can do whatever you want, wherever you want. And don’t give me this “they want to fire you” or “they won’t rent to you.” Employers want one thing and one thing only, for you to do your job. So, do your job and if you can’t bring your boyfriend to the office party, well, who cares? Take your boyfriend to some place fun, instead. What do landlords want? For you to pay your rent on time, every time, and to not trash the place. You’re not planning on moving in a pack of yapping poodles, are you, or desiring to have weekly homosexual orgies? Good…then you’re in. Just truly understanding that others really aren’t paying any attention to you ought to give you a great sense of freedom. I am telling you like it really is.
about 2 years ago
That was an excellent “It Gets Better” message.
about 2 years ago
This whole campaign is developed around the concept that somehow…we have to reach out and tell queer youth that there is a hope and that suicide isn’t the answer. What would you have us do…tell queer youth they are always going to viewed as shit, an abomination and that their lives are pointless??
If they can see positive, adult role models around them that are out and coping, then I think that, along with rallying their peers to stop bullying , is all we have at present. And this is certainly something, because my generation had nothing to deal with but hate on all fronts.
about 2 years ago
Adults have been trying for generations to stop bullying, but it’s basic animal instinct to establish dominance, and that’s all that bullying really is. Maybe someday we’ll figure out a way to prevent it, but for now all we can do is minimize its impact.
This campaign is aimed at letting kids know that it’s worth getting through it because life is, at least for most people, more good than bad.
about 2 years ago
That’s true…the animal instinct is to pick on others who are ‘different’. But as humans we have choice, consideration and the perspective of our very existence, something that animals don’t have. The coming trend may very well be to rally other peers (of all sexualities) to protect queer youth. I don’t see anything wrong with that and it certainly works. Challenging humans to step out of their box and speak out against the hate only furthers the human condition. Give into it all and we’ll just keep recycling the 50′s mindset.
There was never a ‘loss of innocence’ in America…what we had were a majority of white people who were interested in keeping the status quo. A place where minorities needed to keep their mouths shut and people different and/or on ‘the wrong side of the tracks’ were severely ostracized. Even today, that mindset of ignorant intolerance is what’s keeping the hate alive here. As a matter of fact, the “good ol’ days” so often spoken of, were always about ignorant bigotry and blind intolerance.
about 2 years ago
I agree with you, I only meant that children (and this by no means excuses the adults who still act that way) haven’t been civilized yet. That’s the whole reason for school is to instill our culture and civilization, but at 5 years old it’s a work in progress.
about 2 years ago
Absolutely agree…it is our compassion, intellect and perspective that makes us unique among animals. “Lord of The Flies” is a good lesson in what can happen as youth make their own rules/decisions and carry them out without the benefit of history and adult council.
about 2 years ago
I’m not sure I would agree with you on that interpretation of “The Lord of the Flies”. I think, given the beginning and end of the novel, the implication that there has been some sort of 3rd World War and a limited nuclear exchange, as well as the last line descibing a (very much adult) warship says that the kids on the island are only an analogy or metaphor for all humanity. That we all have to watch out that we do not chose the “Jacks” of this world to be our leaders, that we do not allow even the “Ralphs” to “let down the hair” and become confused about what is good and important, and that we should take care to never let the ill-liked and often annoying but rational, civilized and at the core good-hearted “Piggies” of the world get crushed by a might-makes-right philosophy. And that certainly doesn’t end at the high school gate, does it? Even the light of our intellect and technology (Piggie’s glasses in the novel) should be used to light the hearth fires and keep us warm – and not as a weapon of war to the set the world alight.
The conch of civilization is fragile, and always in danger.
about 2 years ago
The youth have been taught only the rudimentary concept in law & order. As they organize, pic sides and symbols of authority, what they don’t know or understand they perform a ‘fill in the blanks’ exercise. True the kids form a microcosm of regular society, but with any adult guidance or any precedent, it all goes to shit in short order.
History of civilization can teach them nothing, because they have virtually no precedent other than the foggy memories of what they’ve been taught in school so far.
about 2 years ago
I actually really like this whole campaign. Sure, it is not the best message to send, but at least something is getting out to the people and are made aware that bullying, especially concerning sexuality, is an issue. It’s a step in the right direction, albeit being a somewhat lame banner to huddle under.
I will say that I love the Pixar ad. It is posted on the forums under the Trevor Project thread, I believe, and has brought my many friends, and myself included, to tears. You go Joshy
And I do agree, that is a very well done video. Kudos Tom.
about 2 years ago
OK…I just watched the Pixar PSA for the first time. I would challenge anyone with anything more than an ogre’s heart, to watch this through dry-eyed. It is the very REAL story of queer folks who have talked the talk and walked the walk. The truth of the message doesn’t get any better than this. You can feel the pain & anguish that every one of them has gone through. And in spite of everything, they still feel it’s all worth it and that there is hope.
The best part of the vid is when they asked them what they would have missed by not being queer….that’s the part where I lose it….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a4MR8oI_B8
about 2 years ago
I meant to say: “…not being here as queer….”
about 2 years ago
That was a good message. Yes I teared up because I never found that acceptance. Or did not allow myself to find it. I would give anything to have that one simple thing,,, a hug, acceptance and to be wanted rather than ridiculed and look down upon.
There is nothing glamorous or chic or magical about death. Suicide is the escape hatch to nothingness and not feeling the kind of pain that an hole in you spirit or inside or consciousness, whatever you call it, feels. The pain of a cold, dark, emptiness… void of anything but regret and pain.
I think about suicide every day. Every single day. And I look to the positive, the good aspects of life and promise those friends I have that I won’t do it today. But every day, 24/7 365 (plus leap year) I think of that peace and how I can never fill this emptiness.
It is a struggle… but on the whole worth it. I may find it someday. Or I will die of medical complications. But I lost the better part of my life to the lie, that being gay was unacceptable, and created a family then torn apart when I could no longer keep it up. Does it get better? Yes. But that pain never goes away. Most of us will never find what we desire most. Unconditional Love and acceptance in the heart.
That is why I feel so angry.. enraged and in spite of all my efforts to the contrary, it still bleeds through.
I want to fight back and hard. Even while I weep.
about 2 years ago
But how would you feel if you could stand in the warm sunlight and hold another male’s hand….in a place where others could see you and smile? Or, having that intimate kiss or expression of love-the ‘privilege’ that heteros share daily with others around them. That is the world still possible to make.
Suicide only lets them win, now and forever. I’m very sorry for your pain and thoughts of suicide, but they’re not any more painful than the memories I have…..that I should have been less of a coward and more of a fighter with respect to the potential of my wasted gay youth. I can only fight now (and through others), for something I should have fought more for, 40yrs ago. How sad is that?
about 2 years ago
How would I feel? How do you think? Happy. I have had moments of that. Generally holding hands and small displays of affection were common with us. So I hoped it had a good effect.
He was with me 4 years… generally the best of my life with another person until he left telling me basically he never really loved me but it was fun … mostly. Such is life.
I never said my pain supplanted yours. How you assumed that is beyond me.
Ah I do not consider life a win or lose proposition. The hate mongers, intolerant and ignorant are always going to be there. Human beings have an amazing ability to learn nothing from the past or even their own lives. Death is inevitable for all of us. I do not have to suicide any more, my body is doing it slowly for me. Pffffftttt.
I do not think anyone would take on a dying 50+ male and Im not sure it would be fair to them and their life to be saddled with that burden. Still I do dream and hope… I can’t help it. For as little faith as I have in Humanity, I hold great faith in Love so I keep trying. And you know what? I am generally happy because I am being who I have always been, in spite of my family’s disregard. That makes me happy and capable to get up in the morning. That and my work with art and writing. Maybe it’s an illusion but I’ll take it for now.
about 2 years ago
“I never said my pain supplanted yours. How you assumed that is beyond me.”
My point was; this isn’t a contest…we all have pain & baggage in our lives from living in and dealing with a largely homophobic society. We can share stories so that others may profit from our pain, but we should never assume that one is more important than another.
I can’t really offer you solutions; because only someone with a huge ego would do so. I don’t know you or your individual circumstances…if I did, something may very well jump out at me. But telling you how to find happiness now after all you’ve been through is pure folly from a stranger. I like the part about how you haven’t given up on love though……<3
about 2 years ago
Pojuwolf–What I hear you saying here is that you think about suicide every single day because there is an emptiness inside you that you believe never can be filled, and what that emptiness is, you seem to describe as “no one feels unconditional love for me.” I know of no way for anyone to search for and find such a person to fill that emptiness, because the very hunger for it will surely drive everyone away. It is possible that your orientation concerning this issue is completely backwards, all too much looking in the mirror and thinking about how much you NEED rather then thinking of how much love you have to GIVE.
As I read your words, several images came to my mind. One image was of a hospice where my brother’s wife volunteered for many years before she met him. She often tells us of her experiences there, holding the hands of lonely, sick, and dying elderly people, hundreds of such experiences, where she received so much love she thought she would burst. Unconditional love… what conditions could somebody possibly put up against some angelic woman who cared enough to come talk with them and caress and hug and hold them during their final weeks of life? The smiles and laughter and joy and happiness those people expressed whenever she would come for a visit was beyond describing and she felt so fulfilled from being with these people that she thought SHE was the one receiving the benefit of visiting them. She received so much unconditional love because she freely GAVE of her own love, without condition.
Sick and dying elderly people too much for you? How about dogs in a animal shelter (or perhaps in an animal hospital). I’ve known people who volunteer (or have gotten jobs) in such places, feeding the animals, petting them, cleaning them, exercising them, playing with them, and caring about them enough to be with them up to whenever they had to be put down. Like my sister-in-law in the hospice, there is something holy about giving your love to a living creature up to and through the point of their death. Not only do you receive carloads of unconditional love and affection (whether that be a hug and a kiss or a lick in the face), but the thought of suicide is just about the farthest thing from a person’s mind in such a setting.
Don’t like animals? Well, here’s one that I thought of and if I ever need it, it is something I just might do someday (but as it is, I’m already very much loved). In Los Angeles where I live, there was an “epidemic” of mothers, almost all Hispanic, throwing their newborn babies that they can’t take care of away in garbage dumpsters. This became such a problem that the city took to advertising on the side of Metro busses, “Mothers, please don’t throw your babies away in garbage dumpsters, take them to the fire station, instead, where they will be received, no questions asked.” Imagine having THAT start in life, your mother WOULD have thrown you away in a garbage dumpster, but thank goodness there is now a program where you could be dropped off at the fire station and the firemen would keep you for an hour or so until Child Services comes to take you off to an orphanage or someplace.
I thought about those babies and figured that the firemen have other things to do besides taking care of those babies, so I thought that an interesting volunteer opportunity might be simply going to the fire station and HOLDING those babies until Child Services came. In my opinion, there is hardly anything that can FILL one with more reverence for life than holding a newborn baby, and you want unconditional love, for sure that is what you would be getting right then and there.
The point is that there are people all around who have an immense need for love. To the elderly and the animals in an animal shelter and the thrown away babies, you can add child prisoners in a juvenile home, prisoners of all ages, orphans, and any of all the other hundreds of thousands of lonely people living in houses and apartments across our land. You give to any of those people and you will get all the love and hugs and hand-holding you ever wanted…so much, that maybe the happiness you feel will make you forget your emptiness (which will no longer be there) and then the next thing you know, that hunky sexy guy of your dreams suddenly comes into your life and finds you very, very attractive, so attractive that he feels it would fill up his life to be with you for however long he could be, even if you were to die soon. It’s definitely happened before.
I’m sure it is a cliche, but to get love, you have to give love, and if you give a LOT of love, a lot of love is what you will get in return.
about 2 years ago
I do appreciate your good words. Until my disabling attack in 2000 I did work with people as much as possible… even my job was to help with technical issues and I would spend the time to fix it or find a way for it to be fixed which was the job, but I got awards for my way helping the caller out of their anger and disappointment to seeing how we could get to what they really wanted and needed. I always resisted the demand by management to keep it to 5 minutes. LOL Drove them nuts when I spent 5 hours to fix a user’s issue…. and save 5 years of work in the process (people never backed up properly). Sometimes it was a diplomat at the state department or something… at times a home person, professor or just a really pissed customer. I loved working with them.
On the side I also worked with prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections being discriminated against because the were Wiccan. Only one real success there but it was worth it.
In the end I sat with my mother, holding her hand as she died. It was a quiet moment. Im not afraid of death. There is nothing special in the machine stopping. Because the woman I shared that moment with was my mother in name only… that person was gone.
Unfortunately my disability is a very complex one with HIV on top of it. I have to stay away from crowds, enclosed public areas, the sick etc.. I go out any way but not much. The neurological problems effect me more and more month to month, more in my head than physically or so it seems. I accept it, not without anger. I always considered myself a giving, loving caring person even as a kid. Certainly not as you describe but I tried helping strangers when I could. But it seemed no matter how much I did, the return was contempt or ambivalence, as if if was deserved. After a while that gets old and you have to ask yourself, what good am I doing?
So I thank you for reminding of what little I did do.
I have wrestled with that darker side since I was about 10. My first minor attempt at self-hurting was cutting. No one noticed. It wasn’t that important.
Sorry… got carried away with story telling again. >__>
And off topic. I do think this is a good video… I was deeply touched by it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~ finis ~~~~~~~~~~~~
about 2 years ago
Thomas, I’m truly mystified by how a man who can speak such sense and beauty as this, found the conviction for your message 11 attack on colin.
about 2 years ago
For the same reason the comment was made that; if you working hard at your job and payed your rent on time, you wouldn’t have any problems related to being queer. People who make statements like that are oblivious to places other than where they live.
If a state in the US doesn’t have an anti-discrimination statute with respect to sexual orientation, then employers in the private sector can fire people and landlords can evict people because they are gay-they do it all the time. You have to have a law and a precedent in place to protect queer folks.
about 2 years ago
I guess I have nothing more than an ogreish heart ):
Good vid though
about 2 years ago
@Fenrir: You are one cold, cold human being
@Real1: I love your words. Eloquence and sincerity are in every letter and I agree with you. The pixar ad has so much raw emotion, pain and sadness, resonating from every word spoken by these queer folk that it makes this whole half-assed “It Gets better” campaign seem worth while. Your words really made me happy. And thanks for posting the link! I was a bit in a rush earlier.
@Pojuwolf: You’re in pain, I can see that, and certainly you have not been dealt the best hand. I am happy you are able to concentrate on the happy rather than that which brings you down, because it is simply not worth thinking thoughts like that, and if you do, to be able to overcome them. You’re strong, beautiful and should keep on living how you want. Sure, you can dwell on the sadness and bemoan your failing body, but that really doesn’t send the message to others, or at least me, that I should put any faith in you as you expect out of the rest of humanity. Be the model! Do what you can to live the life of fulfillment and be the role model who you wished you’d have with the days, months, years, decades you have left. Don’t give up :) We’re all given issues, and life is about living with them and persevering. Some people have problems worse than others, but we simply need to keep living before you regret giving up. Words from a 22 year-old, so sorry if I sound ignorant and too unaware of age, but I would hate to think of you giving up hope when I am sure you have so much to offer.
about 2 years ago
<3 :P
about 2 years ago
I liked the video, as well. It was inspiring and touching, but I did not tear up. I will make an appointment to see my cardiologist in the morning
about 2 years ago
cboi7, thank you….I’ve been waiting through this whole “It Gets Better” campaign to see something that I could really sink my teeth into. I’m going to show The Pixar PSA to our queer youth group. This is as real as it gets and represents the struggles of LGBTQI folks everywhere. I saw bit & pieces of my own life in each and every one of them and wanted nothing more that to hug them all.<3
about 2 years ago
“I liked the video, as well. It was inspiring and touching, but I did not tear up. I will make an appointment to see my cardiologist in the morning.
”
Really…not even misty-eyed? I’m curious…do you think they’re faking it or reading from scripts? Just curious North, what does it take to reach you on that level?
about 2 years ago
Faking? scripted? Certainly not. I sure hope that’s not what you took away from my comment. The testimonials were as genuine as they were powerful, but they wouldn’t come close to making me cry. Sorry.
As an aside, I have done some wholly unscientific research. I asked about two dozen teens that I am acquainted with online and in real life (most of them LGBT) what they thought of the “It Gets Better” videos in general – and only two had ever heard of the “It Gets Better” campaign or the Trevor Project.
about 2 years ago
I wasn’t being flippant…I was seriously asking what it would take for you as a gay male (presumably), to get emotional on that visual, testimonial level.
I agree on the “It gets Better” campaign; only the queer youth at university here have heard of it…no teens in our youth group had heard of it.
about 2 years ago
I didn’t think that you were being flippant. Did I say something to that effect? And, where is written that gay males must be emotional and tear up at every touching story they see or hear?
about 2 years ago
I know you didn’t accuse me of being flippant-just wanted to clear the air surrounding my original query’s intent-in case you thought so.
True, gay males don’t have to be the stereotype of blubbering sentimentalists……just wondering what about this video did not ‘touch’ you on that level…..that’s all. If I had made this vid and couldn’t reach you on that level, I would consider it a failure of sorts.
about 2 years ago
Huh? If every viewer – or at least the gay male viewers – of this video don’t have tears in their eyes by its conclusion, then the video is a failure?!?!
I have called the video “genuine,” “inspiring,” “powerful,” and “touching.” I applaud its makers and have the utmost respect for their experiences and their desire to help others. Why must I feel compelled to shed tears in order for the video to have reached me on this mystical level to which you keep referring?
I bet the lack of tears after watching the video was the far more common reaction, actually.
This discussion has lasted for way too many comments. Let’s not prolong it any further.
about 2 years ago
As much as I detest the pollyanna lowest-common-denominator sentimentality of the “It Gets Better” slogan, I can’t help but think the D:ream anthem “Things Can Only Get Better” would make the perfect musical background. YouTube link to song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIj-6fr2SlI
about 2 years ago
Can you really watch the Pixar vid (link above) and tell me that’s pat, hackneyed and pollyanna….seriously?
about 2 years ago
Coming from a time and area where growing up gay could get you killed or savagely beaten, I spent a lot of time under the radar. My first two tries at coming out made me lose all my friends, and I was raped by my best friend in high school. These things tend to make you hide. The truth is things are better now, but there’s still a long way to go. Find friends who love you for who you are and hold onto them for the rest of your life.
about 2 years ago
You were “raped” by your best friend in high school? How about sending him around to see me. I always prayed that my best friend would “rape” me in high school. Oh well, you can’t please everyone.
about 2 years ago
Hey, Siggy: It is one thing to enjoy a good rape fantasy. Fantasies are fine. Enjoy them. But it is something entirely different to really be reduced by force to a non-person for the gratification of some arsehole, and to be helpless to prevent it. Fantasy is our way of trying to come to terms with feelings of helplessness, to impose a sense of control over what essentially is the loss of control. Feeling it in real life (rape, violence, impriosonment, discrimination, and loneliness) makes us sick in the soul.
about 2 years ago
Agreed…I was raped at 13 by the director of a famous boys camp in MN. I though it was ‘punishment’ for sexual activity I pioneered in the cabin. It wasn’t until I was in college and related the story to a group, did they tell me what had really happened. A that age I was able to compartmentalize the experience and move on….but that’s an exception.
It was because of his ‘station’ of trust at the camp and the fact all us boys respected him, that I reasoned it was some sort of standard punishment for sexually active boys. I think that’s always worse than the physical act; the violation of trust by a respected authority figure.
about 2 years ago
I thought it was a pretty good message.
about 2 years ago
Goosebumps….
about 2 years ago
Please use the board for any further discussion. Thanks.