Bullying causes another Suicide

A 15-year-old gay teen has committed suicide after suffering repeated anti-gay bullying from teachers and kids at his school and online. The boy hanged himself with a scarf at his family home Wednesday evening. He was reportedly sent home from school Tuesday after school officials reprimanded him for his frequent wardrobe consisting of pink trousers, a pink shirt, and painted fingernails.

According to Rome’s chief deputy prosecutor, Pierfilippo Laviani, the teen had been open about his sexual orientation with friends, family, and school officials. Laviani announced that his office had launched an investigation after the teen’s parents found a series of disturbing posts on his Facebook page. Laviani confirmed that the teen had suffered "torment and gone through hell" as a result of the daily abuse by classmates, one of whom had apparently created a fake profile on Facebook deriding the youth for his choice of colourful clothes.

Italy, where more than 85 percent of the population are Roman Catholic, has one of the worst records for LGBT rights in Europe, and has no protections for sexual orientation or gender identity in the workplace or in public accommodations, or bullying laws which include anti-gay bias. Same-sex relationships are not recognized in national law, and it is not legal for same-sex couples to jointly adopt. A recent bill proposed by the Partito Democratico party last year to prohibit anti-LGBT discrimination and bullying failed on the second reading in the Italian Parliament.

"Now we need a law against homophobia, it’s up to the parliament," said Vincenzo Branà, a spokesperson for Arcigay Il Cassero, an LGBT advocacy organization. "But local governments have to do something as well. They have to launch helplines and associations against homophobia."

On Thursday evening, a crowd of several hundred gathered near the famed Roman Colosseum for a candlelight vigil on Via di San Giovanni, and marched to the high school on Via Cavour of Carine with most of those in attendance wearing pink ribbons in the teen’s memory.

Via LGBTQ Nation


66 thoughts on “Bullying causes another Suicide”

  1. So we have regressed dramatically from a hundred years ago when vonGloeden and Plüschow documented a very different kind of life. Don’t tell me it gets better! It doesn’t. It’s getting worse by the minute and all the laws in the world won’t save us.

    1. I think the scandal around F. A. Krupp at Capri was partly responsible for the shift towards more homophobic attitudes in Italy.

      1. F. A. Krupp killed himself in 1902 while vonGloeden, Corvo, Plüschow and others happily carried on for several more decades. I think the rise of fascism under Mussolini spelled the death of easy sex in Italy. Today, our own age smells more like a fascist one as well when it comes to sexual matters.

  2. Another very sad story. Intolarance! What a sin! This poor boy who has not been psychologically strong enough to face the « ennemy ». I pray for him.

  3. It was really, really sad and shocking reading about that the other day, here the suicide rate among gay teens is really low and i never read about episodes like this before. Unfortunately while these episodes are relatively very rare, there had been many others regarding gay adults and streets gang homophobia that luckily didn’t end up with a corpse, but were unacceptable and horrible in the same way, especially in a civilized country. I hope it will get better on the rights side with the upcoming elections but no political party here is enthusiastic when talking about us. Having church in Rome is one of the strongest weaknesses of this country when talking about gay rights.

  4. Another young life lost, because of a lack of support and compassion and understanding for someone who was different than the so-called norm. For a country that’s overwhelmingly Roman Catholic, you’d think they’d practice what they preach and ‘love thy neighbour’. I know this is a worldwide problem and continues to happen everywhere, so it needs to be addressed in EVERY COUNTRY. Once again, I’m crying.

  5. Very sad …… and still happening way too often around the world, and their numbers even rising higher here in the USA which is even more disgusting for a “1st world” leading country.

    This is the first I’ve heard/read about this person. There are no links in the op, so is there a link where we can learn his name and maybe see a photo of him.

    And in a country representing one of the largest churches/denominations of religion that is supposed to be representing the mutual love and care of humans in their societies.

    Where’s the love and respect for the common man (your neighbor and equal), religious church goer that supposedly listens to all those “love thy neighbor sermons” every Sunday?

    Every time something like this happens and is reported, hypocrisy is continually exposed at their roots.

  6. Sorry, again in German :-(

    Ich bin aus dieser Kirche ausgetreten!!! Nächsten Liebe? Alles Heuchelei!!!
    Ich könnte kotz.., wenn ich so etwas wieder lese!!
    Das war leider nicht der letzte Jugendliche der sich umbringt!
    Aber ich sehe nicht, das sich DIESE Scheiß Gesellschaft ändert!!!
    Was haben die anderen jetzt erreicht??? HURRA, EINER WENIGER??? Das kann und darf es doch nicht sein!!!


  7. Could it be that it’s not homophobia that has gotten worse, but rather, cultural attitudes toward boys in general that have gotten worse? Then, any boy who has the cards stacked against him to begin with (like being homosexual) is more likely to be pushed over the edge.

    In our culture it is acceptable for women and girls to openly hate men and boys, and those same haters are scaring men away from showing any attention to boys who need that attention.

    1. You must to be one of those people who will take any opportunity to lay blame upon women for world problems. It makes no logical sense to do so. I seriously doubt you are here to offer solutions as your statement is meant to cloud the issue. Do you think everyone here is that dumb as to fall for your idiotic rant? Don’t bother answering, it was a rhetorical question. It wouldn’t surprise anyone if you turned out to be some rightwing nut with an agenda posing as a compassionate human being. You think just because some of us here are Gay, BI or whatever that we hate women? It think more women need to be in postions of power not less. The world needs the balancing hand of a woman’s tough. This world suffers from testosterone posioning. Who is doing most of the killing murdering, raping and bullying?

      1. … and who is raising all these bullies? It’s mostly women – so somewhere they seem to fail.

        1. And you know this to be a fact because? Are you sure it’s only homes headed by single women and none where there is both a mother and a father. Are you sure you don’t want to blame homes where there are 2 mothers or 2 fathers? Give us verifyable proof from reputable sources. Try to think real hard now without pulling the answers out of your ass. Can you do that? I don’t think you care about these kids at all. Your focus is to make sure that all the women of the world are at fault.

        2. I agree completely with Fulcher. La Luz has given away her true position when she said “hand of a woman’s tough”. That was a fantastic Freudian slip of monumental proportions.

          1. Is that the best you can do is attack my masculinity and blow out of proportion some typo errors. It should read ” a balancing hand of a woman’s touch.” Does that make you feel better now? You focus on something trivial to avoid the questions I’ve asked. If you are unable to provide evidence of your assertions, just say so. OPINION DOES NOT = FACT. Some people get that confused. You have a nice day :-).

            1. “Women have a wonderful instinct about things. They can discover everything except the obvious.” -Oscar Wilde

            2. That’s one Oscar Wilde quote, here’s another.

              “I see when men love women. They give them but a little of their lives. But women when they love give everything.” -Oscar Wilde

              …And another.

              “I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability.” -Oscar Wilde

      2. Since radical (man or masculinity hating) feminism has gained significant ground in schooling, media and general public discourse and it’s unlikely most mothers (much as most anybody) are intelligent or independent enough to swim against the tide of this man-hating stream, then I say no, it makes complete sense to criticise feminism!

        Feminism’s dislike of the boy is such because in it’s mind he is but a rapist, child abuser, wife beater and general oppressor/tyrant in training.

        The problem with all “minority” groups clamoring for “equality” (and this includes parts of the LGBT community), is that what they actually want is special dispensation/treatment in one way or another (if women had equality with men in all areas they’d soon realise how ugly true equality is!). This is nothing new and it’s natural for these groups to act in this way, but it is up to the rest of society to keep them firmly grounded in reality.

        Furthermore, once a group has been established and recognised for long enough (and achieved many of it’s positive goals), they often start to vent their anger and become negative, the search for “equality” soon turns into resentment and lashing out against those that have hurt them, which includes instituting social change to hurt and/or criminalise these oppressors.

        I’m reminded of the t-shirt for girls that said something like “boys stink, throw rocks at them”. Could you imagine the uproar if this slogan was leveled at blacks or worded like “girls are uppity, beat some sense into them”. Of course, as Wordworth says, if men stick up for boys (or show any level of interest or care whatsoever) then, in the mind of feminism and unfortunately often the general public, they are obviously just pedophiles and want nothing more to molest and dominate the young boys of the world as much as the girls. So, yes, boys are all alone in the world!

        “It think more women need to be in postions of power not less. The world needs the balancing hand of a woman’s touch.”

        The balancing hand of a woman’s touch……in positions of power……what planet are you from? Since when has anyone, in any significant position of power had a balancing touch? To ascribe gentleness to “women of power” is not only sexist, but outright ridiculous. Powerful people become powerful through craving power…for themselves! Does Hilary Clinton, for instance, seem like a caring, compassionate woman, when she talks with glee about how drone bombs have decimated Pakistani villages (and the men, WOMEN and children who live in them)

        The idea of an alliance between gays and feminists served purposes in the early days of both movements, but the only type of “gay” feminism will allow now is the non-threatening, camp, effeminate type, a minority group in a minority group (question, do many gays end up camp and effeminate because this is the only image of homosexuality the anti-male, feminist society of the west will allow?). We have been thrown under the bus by feminism, because although we may not seem quite as violent as “normal men”, we are still men and not to be trusted an inch.

        We need to stop kidding ourselves that the aims of gay men and feminists are similar, they are not, even if for a time it seemed they were.

        We need to stop the hating of masculinity (from all angles) and re-engage heterosexual men to show them that there is nothing of significant difference between us, that homosexuality is not femininity and that we are fundamentally male (even if deviating from current narrow expressions).

        This is what we need to do to stop the war against boys, gay boys (it’d be interesting to see how many young lesbians are committing suicide, all we seem to hear about are boys!) and men.

    2. I agree with Wordworth and what he says is also largely a similar observation that Camille Paglia has written about extensively. My compliments Wordworth.

    3. Time for me to read The Beautiful Boy again…

      I’m sorry for your culture. It sounds like you need to change a few things.

  8. I was sent home a few months ago for wearing a little eyeliner, it sucks how crappy schools are about that stuff, feel so sad for this kid :'( and I’m sorry to offend any religious people but i believe that religion is the main cause for homophobia

    1. Not all religions are homophobic. It’s mostly the Abrahamic religions – polytheistic and nontheistic faiths are generally better.

    2. So sorry my young friend, and I understand your view.
      While it may not be religious views that are the root cause of homophobia, quite a few religions / religious sects most assuredly voice their opinion to the detriment of the gay boys across the world.
      If you like to read, there is a pretty good book written a few years back called “Hate Thy Neighbor”, that was written by a gay (lesbian) attorney in Southern California.
      Fairly short book and worth the time spent reading it.
      Anyways, I hope you get a chance to wear your eyeliner at other places, or however else you want to dress / present yourself.
      Take cares…

  9. I lived in Rome from 1970 to 1977 and it was heaven for anyone who liked “straight” teenagers and young men . . . if you didn’t mind a little hypocrisy. For the price of a pack of cigarettes (and cigarettes were cheap back then), you could find as many willing young Italians in the parks and cinemas as you could handle. They just had to be able to say they were doing it “for the money” and it was acceptable to both them and their friends.

    And once they knew you they would go with you for nothing, but whatever they liked to do in bed, it was the other thing that “f…..s” did. And if they liked to do everything in bed, then it was kissing that made you “queer.” Everything else was just “messing around; everyone does that.”

    I loved Rome and many of the guys I knew there, and am still friends with some of them. But the sad truth is they were just as homophobic then as they are now.

  10. @Wordworth: I have not a clue of what your talking about when it comes to your opinion on women. If it where not for a women in part, you would not be able to give such a dumb comment. I have known too many gay guys who can not stand a women. They are not going to have sex with any women. I know a few gays who ventured into sex with women and they got sick after it. Just because you come out with a stupid comment it doesn’t make you a right winger. It just says your stupid. Even Liberals can be stupid.

    1. The fact is that Wordworth is right.
      Michael, as usual, babbles on unintelligibly. Michael, you should be the last person to pontificate about stupidity!

  11. It is sad to think that at this very minute another gay teen is being bullied and conteplating suicide.

    1. you mean a gay boy teen, where are the reports of young lesbians killing themselves?

      I have no doubt they are, but I’d put money on it being in far lesser numbers than the boys!

      there is more to this than just homophobia or boy and girl rates would be practically equal.

  12. Thank You Ersatz Film Buff: As always you liberals come back with a zero comment. You believe Wordworth is right,so let it be that. I believe he is wrong. I don’t pretent to be the sharps knife in the drawer but I’am sure not the dullest. You really can’t dignify your comment with babbles,unintelligent,or pontificate. I’am stating what I have seen in the gay community in my gay years. If you think its bullshit,that is your right,but you are also wrong,or in the closet.

  13. I know this is a Gay blog,but there are teens out there,gay and straight that are being bullied and conteplating suicide. That is the sad thing. A bully well jump on anyone that they think well not fight back. A bully doesn’t want to get hurt,even if its just a little bit. He wants to show his power to anyone watching. This makes him the big dude and the boss. If a kid fights back this is a clear lesson to the others that the bully is not so great. H may lose to the bully,but at least he got some hits on ths bully. It was not a clean show like any good bully would want.

  14. I am no longer religious but I agree with J’s comment “not all religions are homophobic.” Catholicism is notorious for its absolutism and non-acceptance of homosexuality. Unfortunately, Christianity and Islamic religions will feed fuel to homophobia for a long time to come and we will continue to hear of stories like this.

    Many of us here, my self included, have been on the brink of suicide during our teens and for us it did get better. I can now look back on my youth with great fondness for the exciting relationships I was able to steal for myself.

    1. J commented that the Abrahamic religions were the ones which had the worst sexual dogmas. In Hinduism there are lots of homosexual gods. The same is true of the ancient Greek and Roman deities. Lots of their gods are teenagers and priapic. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are a curse. Wherever they have spread their venom they have only spawned misery. Misery is monotheism’s stock in trade. Ecrasez l’infame!
      “The Bible tells us to be like God, and then on page after page it describes God as a mass murderer. This may be the single most important key to the political behavior of Western Civilization.” -Robert Anton Wilson

      1. I didn’t know that in Hinduism there are “lots of homosexual gods.” If so this is a positive and confirming statement regarding the rightful place of same sex love in human society. A religion is basically a collection of myths that rose up from the collective unconscious of men. A myth is like a public dream and have value as a place holder for our projections. Astrology holds the same value. These myths are not literal truths but like an ink blot they invite our projections to be interpreted.

        The value of an interpretation is not in wheather they are right or wrong, correct or incorrect but wheather or not they allow us to understand something about ourselves and have the potential of being productive. Unfortunately, these myths are considered to be literal truths.

  15. I’m so deep in shock thinking how much this poor boy must have suffered… only my tears make me company.

  16. This post, more than most, has a great effect on me. Gay, straight, black, white or whatever I just cannot stand to see kids hurt. The picture really emphasizes the desperation that many feel when their lives are so bleak. My heart aches since I can do so little to help.

  17. @Bruce Tharp: I don’t holed with all that you say related to religion being a myth, but then that is your belief,and so be it. There is one thing I would like to know is how do you spell whether. wheather or whether.

    1. I am convinced that monotheism is a virus that is worse than HIV. It turns its victims into complete idiots and the devastation it wreaks is total.
      Where is Penboy when we need him most?

      1. “Where is Penboy when we need him most?”

        My cape was at a seamstress to repair a hole in it from flying too close to the trees. :D

        And, thank you for that. It’s nice that someone shows understanding what I’ve been trying to say to you good people. :D

    2. “I don’t holed [{Would you prefer boxed?}] with all that you say related to religion being a myth, but then that is your belief,and so be it. There is one thing I would like to know is how do you spell whether. wheather or whether.”

      First, for us non-believers, it’s not a belief, but a total absence of any “belief.”

      I [We] don’t need any 2k+ old “book” with pages made of toilet paper thickness (and being wasted) to “tell us” what we can see with our own eyes — the Earth’s age (Geology & true history), the span of our oceans (without the water and boats/ships spilling off the “edges”) and the obvious ancestry of our species [which, btw, looks remarkably similar to illustrations of "your god" in those toilet paper books], just to name a few.

      Myth: a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation [usually without as in your case], especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.

      As for spelling, it’s right in front of your face — since you must use milkboys’ ‘editor’ to post in here — which includes a spell checker. You’ve never wondered what those red “squigglies” under misspelled words were before [now]? Have you never used most text editors, let alone any decent word processor (excellent ones are, you know, FREE for the downloading and instlalling, no matter which OS you use). Have you never used any search engine and actually read what they show (and by chance noticed that their spellings are quite different from yours)?

      It takes only a small effort — or are you waiting for your ‘god’ to speak down to you and guide you? Maybe that’s why it’s been so long for you to write properly — even “he” is still laughing at your posts.

  18. I was going to quote a few passages from the replies here but instead I will go straight to the point.

    Religion was mentioned as a cause. I saw some try to defend religion by saying that only some religions are homophobic while others aren’t. The truth is that, what ever religion you look at, it always has a rabid core of bigotry. That core is also known as fundamentalism. THAT is where the root cause is to be found.

    An other kid is dead. And still I see very few replies going right to the root of the cause. I don’t believe in a god or gods. Still that doesn’t prevent me from tolerating people who do believe in a god or gods. I only refuse to accept bigotry based on that belief. What I do find repugnant is the obvious discomfort from those that are deeply or at the very least religious to address the problem. It’s like seeing people that fear that their religion will fall apart if they stand up against the bigotry shown by their priests, preachers, shaman, what ever. And that is why kids are still dying. Apathy kills.

    1. “…rabid core of bigotry…known as fundamentalism.” I think you nailed it. It can be so frustrating when arguing with someone who is so disturbingly concrete in their thinking with little or no capacity for abstract or conceptual thought.

  19. @Old Dan :You are so right,Apathy does kill. I don’t like bigotry either, but it seems to be in all of us, more in some,less in others. It’s knowning how to over come it that counts. Just because a person has a Religious belief doesn’t make then a Bigot,but some Religious are very Bigoted in the name of God. There are those who have no beliefs and yet some can be very Bigoted. Not all Priest and Preachers etc, are bigots. You must remember they are also human. @Penboy: I know there are some people who watch and write on this blog who think you are a super human come to speak the true to all who well listen. As you have seen,I’am not one of those persons. I askd a question of Bruce Tharp, not of you,but you took time to answer for Bruce. I think Bruce is able to speak for him self. As for Milkboys ‘editor’ if they are checking my spelling there doing a piss poor job of it. All I do is put my comments in the best I can. I guess I’am not on the enter circle as you are. As For you total absence of any “belief” I guess that you have no belief in anything what so ever,not even in your own self. That is a shame in it’s self. Your INTOLERANCE of anyone’s belief in Religion is also a shame and a sign of your Bigotry. If I have any more questions that I would ask of the super hero of the Atheist community I well address them to you,Penboy.

    1. “I know there are some people who watch and write on this blog who think you are a super human come to speak the [true] to all who [well] listen. As you have [seen,I’am] not one of those persons.”

      Yes, we all know this — just as you never listened to any of your teachers in school. It’s so limiting when you “pick & choose” who is providing you with education. Me, I don’t care who is offering me education, as long as I can see it is truly educational, and not just proven bullshit as religions are.

      Bruce Tharp is free to respond to any post he likes, just as I am. But you really show your mettle with your response — I offered you excellent advice on posting your responses, but simply because it’s me, you refuse to accept any further knowledge. So, a good portion of your response is actually toward yourself — read it again. I guess it just “kills you” to, you know, actually learn something from someone like me (all because I don’t go to your church/believe in the same bullshit).

      You really need to learn and accept sarcasm and some silliness — such as [Idiots Anonymous]‘s question. So, I responded in kind — sarcasm. For you to take any of that seriously, well, you need some help (besides your writing “skills”).

      As for “INTOLERANCE,” you might want to look inward. My intolerance is toward religion (of all kinds), not so much the people — until they encroach their crap into my space, which they do on a daily basis (if not hourly). My intolerance is toward obvious ignorance which is shown by all religions and their flock by “believing” in that crap (none of which has been proven, only “it is written”). Why? Simple. Even though my family was very religious (even had an uncle who was a catholic priest for around 60 years), my mother kept telling me, “When you’ve stopped accepting [proven] knowledge, you’re dead.” I’m not the smartest or the most accomplished, but I still strive to learn new things as much as I can and as needed. And for me, there’s no point to anything (“being taught”) if it doesn’t further society’s knowledge and education to make it a better society. Religion does neither, and that’s been proven time and time again. Ahh, but some of you will say, “what about the charities and schools?” To which I answer: No one needs religion to be charitable — that’s in one’s makeup, if it’s meant to be. And schools? Please, get real. The only reason religions have any schools are to further their religion, period. Their curriculum? 90% of it is the same as most public schools [that have the resources such as money and teachers] because that is what’s been proven as proper education. The remaining? It’s clearly furthering their ignorant religious ideas (such as no evolution, really stupid ideas of all sexualities, and societal forcing of the negativity of birth control & abortions [but, interestingly, they really don't give a shit after the child is born]). If they can’t have the [legal] opportunity to further their own religion, they wouldn’t have schools — that’s money out of “their pocket” — actually, yours, because of all the donations and free land and usage (no property taxes, no income taxes, etc).

      So, Michael, if you can take the time to actually learn something, you’ll see what real bigotry and intolerance is all about. [Not to you, Michael, as you wouldn't know the difference, but] Sorry about the long paragraph but it was all in the same “thought.”

  20. @ Penboy: How can you suggest that ‘God’ or ‘he’ is laughing at my post. If you are a non-believer as you say how can you make such a statement. Besides being a bigot,you must also be a hypocrite. Your bag is full.

  21. @Penboy: Yes you do go on and on,but you go no where. The truth about me in school was I was not a bad student. I had and average 85 to 90 grade, even given the fact I really hated school. I had three years of latin which was a bitch in its self. Now as Religious schools go,there are many parents who send their children to Catholic or private schools because the public schools here in Philly suck. I can’t speak about schools in you area and don’t intend to. As for so called proper education bing proven you are wrong again. Public schools have a higher drop out then Catholic schools. As for taxes, you are correct about the federal tax,but incorrect about property taxes. I just got a list of expendable moneys and donated moneys. One of the cost of the parish Church was PROPERTY TAX. I don’t give a damn if you do or don’t believe in what I do,but If you had something say that was worth doing I would do it. Just in that upper bit of bull you wrote, I can’t do all that fancy printing you do. I have two ways to print.LARGE or small. That’s it. I have no spell checker like you,but yet you are on me about my spelling. I to came from Religious family, but you went one way and I went the other way. That’s what they call free will. I do know what intolerance and bigotry is. I not only know it I have seen it and experienced it first hand. I don’t know about your life but you sure do hate Religion or people who do believe in some form of Religion. Yes, I don’t believe in abortions,specially parcel- birth abortions. Not wanting abortions is not a stupid idea. Millions of children have been aborted since it was legalize and a great percentage was in the African-American community. I think that sucks in plain English. I have learn that you carry your hate for Religion into many of your comments and I’am not the only one to say that. You said that religious people are like sheep following a false bullshit. Well I think you have some sheep on this blog also. There are times you come up with a good comment and it is pleasing to see. I recall in comment #39 you said you have a TOTAL ABSENCE OF ANY “BELIEF”.

    1. “Yes, I don’t believe in abortions,specially parcel- birth abortions.”

      Yeah, I guess you’re right …… If they’re going to be delivered by either FedEx or UPS, I guess you should keep what you pay for. Parcel deliveries are expensive, nowadays.

    2. Unless you are able of giving birth it doesn’t really matter what you think about abortions since it’s pretty much none of your business what someone who’s pregnant does with their body ;)

    3. Michael:
      “Yes you do go on and [on,but] you go [no where]. The truth about me in school was I was not a bad student. I had and average 85 to 90 grade, even given the fact I really hated school.”

      Sorry, but I have to “call you out” on this. In my opinion, that is pure bullshit and/or an outright lie. But I do believe that you hated school [education]. Why do I say this? Because (and I’m pretty sure most reading this will fully agree), to have an average with those scores (high B to low A as you claim), you would naturally possess much better communication skills, which you clearly don’t. Also with that average, I’d assume you went to a fairly respectable college or university for at least 4 years (because most doing that well would continue their education). And if you did, you would have needed to write many papers and proven your communication skills to pass any classes of their curriculum. If you did go to a higher learning institution, who wrote your papers for you (the Internet wasn’t around then)? If you did, there’s no way you would have received those high scores, period because every teacher/professor would have thrown them at your face because he simply couldn’t either read or understand them. So, it appears that you “go on and [on,but] you go [no where]”

      “As for Milkboys ‘editor’ if they are checking my spelling there doing a piss poor job of it. All I do is put my comments in the best I can.”

      This really shows your ignorance (and actually helps prove what I just said above). Milkboys’ “editor” does a fine job of checking your spelling, it’s just up to you to actually correct it. That’s exactly why I offered my excellent advice to anyone [you]. To not “see” that is to show your laziness and ignorance. Obviously, you must expect your computer to do everything for you. Newsflash: It’s only a tool but you need to learn how to use it as with any tool [of the "trade"].

    4. “I just got a list of expendable moneys and donated moneys. One of the cost of the parish Church was PROPERTY TAX.”

      Unless a portion of the church property is not deemed to be used strictly for religious services (by the state), then you did not see any property tax anywhere in Pennsylvania. And, knowing how detailed the catholic churches are in this matter, then it appears that you lied in your above post just to make me think that your church is “normal.”

      This link shows that Pennsylvania exempts all churches of property tax as long as all of the property is for religious services.

      Also, it is Federal Law (as well as law in all 50 States) that all church properties used solely for religious purposes shall not be taxed, period.

      “I have learn that you carry your hate for Religion into many of your comments and I’am not the only one to say that.”

      No shit, jack. So, you finally figured that out, did you?

      “Well I think you have some sheep on this blog also.”

      I think you’ll find that I’m the last person on this blog who would have any “sheep”. Your ignorance just doesn’t quit, does it?

      Let me give you an example you just might understand:

      If you were to be offered to give a “guest sermon” at your church (and you accepted), and you started talking to ‘your congregation’ as you have done to me and others in your posts in here (as well as all the other threads you’ve posted), I would expect that no less than 70% of the people (religious themselves), would stand up and walk out on you ….. and then file a complaint against you with the usual priest of that church. That’s how bad you are with your communication “skills.” And you want us to actually believe that you had even an 85% average score in school? Get. Real.

  22. Michael, now that you got you “holy” rocks off calling me a bigot I will simply ask you to quote the exact passages in my reply that prove I’m a bigot. Just so you know my understanding of what religion is I will say I was brought us as a catholic but now I’m cured.

  23. @Oid Dan: I see that your as good on the key board as I am. I didn’t call you a Bigot. I said that we all have some bigotry in each and every person. Some more then orthers. Some know how to refrain this bigotry and some do not. What you said was not any cause for me to think that you where speaking as a bigot. I said that not all Priest or Preachers are bigots. They are human as we are,and they do have their faults as do each one of us. Some preach the word of God with love, some preach with fear and hate. Those that do should be removed from their own fear and hatefulness.

    1. Your INTOLERANCE of anyone’s belief in Religion is also a shame and a sign of your Bigotry.

      The above comes from your reply #41. So, you said again?

      Now if you really do take the time to properly re-read my reply you will see that I made it clear what the root was, where bigotry came from. I did not make a blanket statement about the people that belong to a religion, neither the followers or the preachers. I made it quite clear that it was fundamentalism, no matter what religion you look at. Also, atheists and agnostics also, sadly, have their fair share of bigots.

      Am I intolerant? Yeah. I can’t tolerate willful ignorance, willful ignorance of science, willful teaching of hatred, willful demeaning of atheists or agnostics. You know, that kind of thing. Just so you know it seems that atheists are even more hated than gays. Just some food for thought. You believe in a god or gods? I don’t care. If it make you happy it’s like what ever floats your boat but don’t you ever dare say I am less than you because I don’t believe in religion. You see, when I sin I have only one person to blame. ME, moi, je. Not some invisible demonic being I could accuse of having wrongly tempted me. If I am kind or helpful or charitable or even tolerant to someone it’s not because I want to please some supposedly benevolent invisible being but rather because it’s the right thing to do. Oh, by the way, that Golden Rule? Did you know it doesn’t belong to christians? In fact it was known for thousands of years before that mythical Jesus of yours. Think about it. A rule that actually transcends ALL religions.

  24. @Penboy: So your calling me out. What is this the OK corral shot out. Your assumptions are full of shit. Yes I had a 85,90 average in High School. I didn’t go to any College or universty, instead I went into the Army. When I got out I went to Penn State night school to please my folks. I just didn’t enjoy school. The night school lasted 8 months. I worked as a carpenter for 6 years and then got into Government work. I was a Housing and Building Inspector for Philadelphia Housing Authority for 37 years. You have to recognize that your comments are all written in a different type then others. This is not my tool of my trade. I can run through all the comments and pick up your work with out looking at the name at all. Your comments come up in three different types and shades. I think most reading your comments would think that you most have a hard on for me. I quess that might be said if asked about me. We I don’t . You are not my type,that’s for sure. I put my comments in and that’s it,but you have to keep coming back like you where my teacher correcting me on ever step. I have learn nothing from you except you sure do hate Religion. Honestly I don’t care if you have beliefs or you don’t. I do wish that you would stop putting my beliefs down. I believe, you don’t. so what. For all I know you may have quit you Religion because it was the easiest thing for you,to do. There are times i like to stay in bed on Sunday,and keep my money in my pocket. But I get my ass out of bed and go to church and put some money in the collection. Its my chose. As the Indians would say,’May the Geat Spirit be with you’.

  25. You are wrong, Michael.

    Penboy does choose to believe, he believes (one hopes) in reason, logic, critical analysis and the idea of some kind of consensus reality. His beliefs (one hopes) are based in that which is verifiable and repeatable (scientific method), failing the availability of that which is verifiable and repeatable, they are based on that which is most likely given experience (i.e a cloudless sky tomorrow will almost certainly be blue).

    Your (religious) beliefs are based on scripture or maybe your priest or pastor dispensing information to you. Of course, there are pages and pages of scripture (or beliefs, if you will) that Christians (and every other religion) willfully disobey with alarming regularity. Why aren’t we putting people to death who work on the Sabbath, why aren’t we stoning women not virgins at marriage, why are we allowing menstruating women into church? As a religious person, I expect these questions are at the forefront of your mind and that you have answers to why the scriptures aren’t being upheld?

    Is it the place of man to put one piece of scripture above the next?

    Also, may I remind you that you are also an atheist about several hundred, if not thousands of gods that have lived and died in the minds of followers now no longer even corpses or bones, but part of the great circle nonetheless. These gods were equally mighty, powerful and doctrinaire as any, but who remembers them now?

    Maybe they have joined together to wreak havoc (hurricanes etc) for the fact that we have forgotten them and are now (some of us) worshiping these false, new upstart gods.

    He (Penboy) could sometimes try being more civil though, no need to be personal about those we don’t know personally…

    1. Penboy should be more civil? Why? After all, all that he’s doing is voicing an opinion that seems to be making a lot of “believers” afraid of the what if Penboy is right about no god out there thingy? Michael is the best example of what I mean. He starts throwing fits as soon as someone proposes the idea that religion could be the greatest cause of bigotry and hatred out there. It’s like he fears his religion will fall apart under closer scrutiny. Questioning religion is perceived as a form of bigotry in the eyes of Michael. Therefore critical thinking must be the same I guess. If my saying this is my being uncivil so be it. I will stand proudly by my words and opinion.

      Still, in case everybody forgot, the topic of this thread is about the death of an other boy and the causes of that death. I say he was slowly murdered by religion.

      1. Well, you could go one step further and say he was slowly murdered by society.

        We all subscribe to at least one religion, the religion of the sociological environment we are brought up in, we need to do so in order to fit in and survive in our society. The rules of this environment are as strictly enforced as any religion.

        In schools reason, logic and critical analysis is shunned in favour of advanced socialisation studies (taking on the prominent ideas of the day as if it were a religion).

        You can see that in the 1960s you would end up with many racists by this method (and is it really their fault as an individual?) and up until now many anti-gay bullies, because even if homosexuality isn’t actively denounced, it is explicitly degraded (that nice new term, “x is so gay”, where x can be a building, a car or any other object, animate or inanimate).

        The only way out this continuing nonsense is the championing of reason from an early age. Unfortunately, reason beyond one’s sociological boundaries is probably practiced by as little as 1% of the world’s population. It is not taught in schools (it’s probably classed as being naughty or disruptive) and very few seek it out (most, religious or not, seem to get through life without it).

        I live in a country where quite a percentage are atheist, yet many of them condemn homosexuality anyway for “not being right” (they flounder when you ask them to define “right”) or “being dirty” or just as someone/something to beat down. These opinions don’t consciously come from any religion scripture, but stupid things they were taught when they were young that they haven’t managed to shake off, because they remain unreasonable, irrational people.

        In a hundred years time we will look as silly and bizarre and irrational as the Victorians look to us and a hundred years from then and so on…

  26. @jim : Very good comment you have made here and it is as you say very civil. I am not a atheist as far as these other God are. I believe in one God. As you have seen with those Greek and Roman Gods they seem to be always fighting amongest one another. Plus it’s easier to pray to one God. With that comment about wreaking havoc, that was done by some far out preachers who wish us to believe that God is a vindictive God like in the Old Testament. Now you have people like that African-American comedian who said he was thankful Obama won. He’s our lord and savior. I do think that is carrying his win a bit far. As for Penboy,he is just a very nice ERISTIC.

  27. @ Old Dan: I never said you or anyone is a lesser person because your Atheist. Hell it’s your right to be what ever you want. Actually when they put us in the ground or what ever, then and only then well we know who is right or wrong. That INTOLERANCE line was not directed to you at all. Your comment # 53 came down hard on me and comment #41 was Penboy,not me.If you read my comment #44 you well see that I agree with some of your words,but disagree with others. I don’t see why you are all hot and bother,because I was not cutting on you at all. I hope your not becoming a ERISTIC like Penboy.

    1. Apologies to Penboy for my typo.

      Now, Michael, this is the post I’m referring to.

      “”#44 written by Michael
      about 2 days ago””

      Starts with “”@Old Dan :You are so right,Apathy does kill. I don’t like bigotry either, but it seems to be in all of us, more in some,less in others. ” Just trying to be precise because I forgot that the post number can change when others reply.

      Anyway, you must have some lawyer blood running through your veins because you are using the old tactic of accusing the accuser. That is the defense of the weak when they can’t offer a proper counter argument.

      My point always has been to say we need to go to the root of the cause. I’ve said that religion is the cause of hatred and bigotry and in my links post I just offered but a few examples of to back up my argument.

      One is about an entire organization that bases its moral precepts where killing gays is godly. The other link is about a teen refused one of the most important catholic sacraments because he refuses to be a bigot and an outright homophobe. Then there is the christian group that believes in demonic sex or what ever. We aren’t talking “few” here as only a person here and there being bigots. You know damn well I could have posted hundred of similar links to back up my argument. So please be kind and stop accusing someone of being a bigot because he looks at religion in a bad eye. In the end it tends to make you look like a fool.

      So, again, hoping you will finally get it is what I believe in.

      I believe that anyone can chose to believe or not to believe in a god or gods. I just don’t care. It is NONE of my business.The moment I start caring and it becomes my business is when that person starts using his or her religion as a weapon to hurt other people. Is it clear enough or should I write in in french?

      Before you accuse me of purposely being blind to any kind of positive action is religious groups I offer you the following. The Church of England! They are or were facing a schism because so many were pro gay and wanting to fully accept them. Threats of breaking into two churches or denominations because one side absolutely refuses to stop hating gays while the other side fully accepts gays even as deacons or archbishops.(Apologies if I use the wrong descriptives because I’m not really familiar with that church but you get the point.) See? One side actually addressing the root of the problem.

      Jim said the following.

      “”Well, you could go one step further and say he was slowly murdered by society.

      We all subscribe to at least one religion, the religion of the sociological environment we are brought up in, we need to do so in order to fit in and survive in our society. The rules of this environment are as strictly enforced as any religion.””

      Very well said. Still one mustn’t forget what molds a society, its morals and customs. It always goes back to the local witch doctor, shaman, preacher or priest.

      Does this make me a eristic?

      For those wondering.=


      Eristic, from the ancient Greek word Eris meaning wrangle or strife, often refers to a type of argument where the participants fight and quarrel without any reasonable goal.

      The aim usually is to win the argument and/or to engage into a conflict for the sole purpose of wasting time through arguments, not to potentially discover a true or probable answer to any specific question or topic. Eristic is arguing for the sake of conflict as opposed to the seeking of conflict resolution. [1]

  28. @Old Dan: I didn’t read those blogs that you listed in comment #58 because I for one do not believe LGBT people should be put to death. Having the Church denie Confirmation to a teen because he/she is pro-gay is wrong. Those Christian Group saying Demon Sex Makes You Gay, have to be far off the cliff of sanity. I never said religion makes people be without fault or defect. No matter how you look at it, Atheist or Believers, we are still human,with human faults.

  29. @Old Dan: I don’t know why you have to apology to Penboy for your typo. Is he your mentor. I can respect you for your belief, not to believe. I just wish to have the same respect for my right to believe. As for you being a bigot I never said you where. What I said was we as humans all have some bigotry as well as racial feelings in us,but what we must do as we grow is to learn to control these feelings. Not let them control us. I do hope this is a clearer why of explaining my thoughts. Again, I’am no way calling you a bigot. I too don’t that much about the Church of England, but the Catholic church here in America doesn’t hate gays. They just disaprove of the sex actor. Before you say anything,I know that makes no sense. I think that is there way of trying to get closer to the fact that being gay is NOT a disease. The Episcopal Church seems to be very open minded towards Gay folks. I have a gay friend and his partner go to one in center city. They are very happy with the Church and its service. I did not call you a ERISTIC, I said I hope your not becoming one,and yes I do know what it means. I also like the civil comment Jim responded with and your’s was also,but with some mistakes. Don’t worry I didn’t see any typo errors. Leave that to me.

    1. I knew I forgot to comment about a few other things.

      1= Penboy is not my mentor. I, like him, am capable of critical thinking all by myself. I apologized to him because my typo made it seem like he was the one I was referring to instead of referring to you.

      2= Yes you called me a bigot. I proved it by using your own words from your own post.

      Again, here is that quote. “”Your INTOLERANCE of anyone’s belief in Religion is also a shame and a sign of your Bigotry.””

      You will notice that I hadn’t even addressed the fact that you also wrongly accused me of being intolerant in my reply regarding that quote. Still, those are your words. Tough!

  30. Michael, I never told you you stop to believe in your god or religion. NEVER. All I am saying is that you, I, and everybody else around us must have the courage to look for the cause of the rampant homophobia we see around us. Then, you, I and the rest of us must go for the throat of those bastards. I made it clear that there is a core of bigots in every religions that use the teachings of their religions to refuse to accept gays as having the same rights as everybody else. In the name of their god or gods they will promote the bullying of kids when it’s not promoting their execution. So, again, all I have been saying all along is we must stand up against that core of bigots. So, how can standing up against that core of fundamentalists be seen as me wanting you to deny your own faith?

    Look, I don’t believe in a god. So what? What I do believe in is that weird golden rule that I mentioned in an above post. Even before I came out of my deep in denial closet. It’s just the right thing to do. You see someone hurting someone? You stand up for the victim, even if the bully belongs to the higher-ups of a religious group. It doesn’t attack your faith or even your religion. It makes it even stronger by being more embracing of humanity’s diversity. Isn’t what being “Christ-like” all about? Ironically, your being a “believer” makes it even more crucial that you work at getting rid of the corrupt ones that are busy soiling your religion with their bigotry.

    I stood up to priests and preachers. Even while in a church in front of a congregation. There were kids that were in that church at that moment. I’ll never know if any was deep within his or her own closet but I do hope that seeing me standing up to the teacher of hate that it made a difference for the better in the life of that kid or maybe even adult.

    Now I try to do my part here on this blog. I say small because I’m but one voice out of the many wonderful voices I see here. It’s not about me wanting to win an argument. That is small minded and wasteful. All I do is point a finger and say “there’se the cause”(at least in my own opinion). Now stand up and do something, say something, say ENOUGH!

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