Christians & the Death Penalty for Queers

We seem to be entering a period of exposure for extremist Christians with the latest being one Pastor Curtis Knapp of New Hope Baptist Church in Seneca, Kansas, saying that gays should be killed:

They should be put to death. That’s what happened in Israel. That’s why homosexuality wouldn’t have grown in Israel. It tends to limit conversions. It tends to limit people coming out of the closet. — ‘Oh, so you’re saying we should go out and start killing them, no?’ — I’m saying the government should. They won’t but they should. [You say], ‘oh, I can’t believe you, you’re horrible. You’re a backwards Neanderthal of a person.’ Is that what you’re calling scripture? Is God a Neanderthal backwards… in his morality? Is it his word or not? If it’s his word, he commanded it. It’s his idea, not mine. And I’m not ashamed of it.”

Of course Knapp was later interviewed by CNN and of course he claimed that he was misunderstood. But, of course, his own words tripped him up as he said:

We punish pedophilia. We punish incest. We punish polygamy and various things. It’s only homosexuality that is lifted out as an exemption.

Such ideas are not fringe to those Christians who call themselves reconstructionists, meaning that they want the equivalent of Sharia law, a return to Old Testament law, and dominionists, who want to install a theocracy by stealth (again mirroring the much quoted idea by anti-Islamists from Islam that you can lie and deceive to achieve God’s purpose).

Someone like Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association has argued openly for America law to be “bible based” and has called for homosexuality to be recriminalized, though has been careful to avoid calling for execution. In a number of instances, the links between those explicitly calling for the death penalty for gays and very mainstream religious right figures have surfaced.

Last December, Ron Paul (who keeps trying to become the Republican nominee for the presidential election) was discovered to be touting the endorsement of “Eminent Pastor Rev. Phil Kayser, Ph.D.” Kayser is the pastor of Dominion Covenant Church in Omaha, Nebraska, and supports the death penalty for gays, delinquent children and adultery. Paul’s campaign later removed the endorsement from his website.

George Grant, a well-known reconstructionist, was the co-author for Mike Huckabee’s (who was another wanna-be presidential candidate) 1998 book, “Kids Who Kill: Confronting Our Culture of Violence.” In the book, Huckabee and Grant lumped homosexuality with pedophilia, sadomasochism and necrophilia as “institutionally supported aberrations.” Grant has called for the execution of gays.

Right-wing TV superstar Glenn Beck’s “Black Robe Regiment” was an effort to get pastors and religious leaders to take a stand on political and cultural issues. It included another Pastor ‘out’ for killing of gays, Steven Anderson from Tempe, Arizona.

Then we have the ties between Michele Bachmann (who was also running to become America’s president) and a ‘hard rock ministry’ in Minnesota which broadcasts from the very mainstream conservative Heritage Foundation. It says that countries that execute gays are “more moral” than America. Bachmann has ignored calls to disassociate from that ministry.

The now viral video of a four-year-old boy at the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle in Greensburg, Indiana, singing “Ain’t no homo’s gonna make it to heaven,” where the congregation leap to its feet in shouts and applause, may have shocked some, but the point is this is not isolated.

Greensburg is where 14-year-old Billy Lucas killed himself because he was perceived as being gay and that community banded together for a massive cover-up. That led Box Turtle Bulletin to call Greensburg America’s Ugliest Town, but it is far from the only place where murderous hatred is the norm.

[Article via Care2]

  

94 thoughts on “Christians & the Death Penalty for Queers”

  1. So what is new: another American extremist preacher nutter? These are not Christians as they don’t abide by the teaching of the gospels. They are extremist cult leaders and they should be ignored tbh.

    1. They are Christians.
      The problem you guys have is how to interpret your bible. How it is translated. What translation to use and then what bits of the whole mish mash are you going to follow and what bits are you going to ignore because they are so awful. On and on and on.. very old story – right?

      In short, good guys don’t have a monopoly on Christianity. These criminal nutters are just as Christian as you.

      1. No they are not Christians. Christ said “By their fruit you shall know them.” Hence if it does not act like a Christian it isn’t. Now you may ask who has ever behave as a Christian? In most cases no one, and that IS the entire point. We fall short we do not measure up. Course neither did Paul, and to say that God or Christ said “Homosexuality is a sin” is to be dishonest since neither God nor Christ ever did. Levi, James and Paul sure did, and none of them were God.

        It seems we were meant to learn Gods Law, and perhaps share it. But to enforce Gods law one must be a true fool, for every sin you persecute another? There will be one of our own awaiting to condemn us. Certainly we should punish Murder Rape and Theft? But who one spends ones life with as their helpmete? Is between those two and God.

        “Let he who is with out sin cast the first stone.” So said Christ as he wrote the sins of the high priests in the dirt. And defended a prostitute.

        I would go and educate Mr. Knapp, but he is already doomed to his fate. He will lead Gods Children in to the very place God has warned him not to. Mr. Knapp will lose his soul because he was too foolish to actually read the words.

      2. I don’t think we have many atheists in U.S. prisons and most are born again while serving time.

    2. They are hard to ignore when politicians use them to generate votes. The republicans actively seek out voters with these extremist views.

  2. its the usual backlash from the extreme right, all coz Obama announced he was for gay marriage.

  3. This epidemic in 2012 of hatred of gays is very disturbing as well as frightening. As we know gay children (later adults, of course) are produced by so-called straight couples. So should we also kill them for producing ‘biological entities’ which are evil and a threat
    to our very social survival? Of course, that idea is ridiculous. But, who knows, with the extreme hatred we see surfacing with such vehemence in the USA today, that may be their their next campaign. “Hold those horrible parents responsible!” They should be sterilized!
    They should be ostricized! Imprison them! Kill them! These are the kinds of ideas propounded by the Nazis.
    If America is a sick society, it is due to the spreading of hatred against gays by these right-wing extremests.
    –carlitos

    1. Maybe if America is a sick society – it is due to the spreading of all hatred against all people, but then what do I really know I am just a lonely gay man.

    1. To all you people who do not believe in God, you are free to do so.

      God gave you a free will and you are using it.

      1. The notion of free will given by god is nonsensical to atheists since they do not believe in god, or believe in the non-existence of god. It is also patronising since you assume the moral high-ground by saying that, even though the atheist beliefs are false, it’s okay to belief them.
        Foxy is being rude and their statement itself is rather idiotic for condemning a very large and heterogeneous group of people.

    2. If you preach hate, you are not any better than christians or agnostics who preach hate. If you are christians and you preach hate, you are not any better than atheists or agnostics who preach hate. and if you are Agnostic and preach hate, then you are just as bad as atheists or christians who preach hate.

      Is it starting to sink in yet? the problem is *not* religion, or it’s lack, but HATE. If you preach LOVE, then you are 1000 times better than anyone who preaches hate, regardless of who you believe in, or don’t believe in.

    3. Hear hear. People are arguing about a misinnterpreting of the bible. But misinterpreting of what? Fairy stories, that’s what. Good for you. We all need clear headed people like yourself.

      Stephen.

    4. hence the reason that people LIKE YOU get bashed by ultra right wing christians – you are not very bright are you.

      1. So you keep your head down and hope they don’t know your gay? Thata not living. That’s existing.

        Stephen.

  4. Maybe the xtians and the mozzies are right and dirty, filthy, gay perverters of small boiz bottoms should be put to death.

    After all there’s at least 2Billion of the nut-jobs, that vastly out numbers the knob jockeys.

  5. Thanks foxy I love you too.

    @upikinonme: I disagree: Christians follow the teaching of Christ and he preached love not hate. Yes he referred back to the OT as the law but something tells me he would not condone behaviour and speech like this. Anyway this will blow up onto a load of athiest hatemongering so I am not going to go on about this. But those people who preach such hate are not following what is set down in the gospels sorry.

    1. Well yes, I would agree with you that your way is the way to be a Christian. I would describe myself as an Atheist Christian – I have noted others using the same description.

      But, you cannot exclude these extremists and say they are an aberration. They are not. They are not so far from mainstream Christianity. The history of most of Christianity is nothing but an horrific bloody road – all in the name of your God, your Christ and so forth.

      Believers of two thousand years ago were no less intelligent than believers of today and the intervening millennia have shown what a corrupt and violent practice Christianity is and will be for any future too. Christianity reflects humanity and what a lousy bunch we can all be for so much of the time.

      The problem is when Christians assume an authority they declare is given by some God and then are allowed to abuse the power gained. The problem is when the rest of the unthinking sheep allow the arseholes to do what they will. The problem is when others readily jump on to the band wagon for a bit of persecution and wicked fun.

      What has changed for our time is of course the information age and easy access to education for most. If you as a Christian wish to be recognised as a member of an honourable and benign club that operates to that standard you obviously hold yourself to – then you have a big problem – Christianity in practice is not honourable and it is certainly not benign.

      Of course – you and your brothers can change all that.
      I wait the day when I can scream applause ‘ Way to go Finstere!’

    2. This is where in scriptures we need to remember that Jesus grabs a whip and violently drives people out while turning over tables and having a hissy fit.

      also:

      For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

      The Jesus I have read about in the Bible is not a man of peace, he is a man of action! ( get your Jesus action figures now at such places as Amazon.com and goHastings.com) :p

      anyhow Jesus’s violence is what SOME Christians look at as justification that its ok to hurt others as long as your doing your Fathers work!

      1. Jesus drove the tax-collectors and money changers from his father’s house – and became angry not at the people, but what the people were doing and where they were doing it. He lived among us – at a different time then today. And he met a violent end as well – and quite frankly I find it offensive (not you) when Christians use his actions as justification to hate other people.

    3. They are hiding in your shadows. Whether you like it or not, the Bible is full of a lot of hateful, inciting bile, and I don’t see much effort from moderate Christians to purge it from their doctrine. It doesn’t fit with what you where told Christianity is, so your just blending it out. Yet you’re still running around and sell the Bible as Gods very word. Unfortunately, it comes as a package.

      You are allowing those people to hide in Christianity’s shadows. Their believes are protected by the same rights that protect yours. They are using your churches and your social networks to spread their bile. They’re set up in a way that makes targeting their believes very hard without targeting yours as well, because guess what, effectively, they are the same.

      It’s time to very adamantly distance yourself not just from those people, but the very words their world views are based on. If you don’t believe certain parts that are written in the bible, it’s time to *REMOVE* them. It’s not like the Church hasn’t edited the Bible before to better fit the message. Otherwise, stop complaining that you’re lumped in together with those people. It’s your own damn fault.

    4. “Anyway this will blow up onto a load of athiest [hatemongering] so I am not going to go on about this.”

      Your constant whining about us Atheists (or similar) is way too tiring and tedious to read through. Whenever asked a simple logical question or pointing out your religious bullshit, you go into this same, unending tirade. Please stop hiding behind this crap of “liberal religion” (whatever crap that is) and just admit how religious you really are — you never hesitate in defending to the hilt whatever is religious. If the OP were talking about Americans, I suspect you’d be in that very church.

      That, and your nearly constant anti-Americanism (and you are, make no mistake about it) with nearly all your posts.

      Oh, one last thing — can’t you even spell your own name?

  6. It’s times like this when it’s cool to be a Roman Catholic. Having long ago passed our barbarous stage, we are now the sole unified beacon of enlightened western civilization. And we don’t care if you disagree. Shove it.

    All of these denominations and their pastors have strayed from Holy Mother Church, and are, out of their own mouths, convicted heretics. They should all be reported to the Congregation For The Doctrine Of The Faith in Rome (formerly the Holy Office, formerly the INQUISITION). They should be visited by the Franciscans (the fiercest of the Inquisiting Orders), examined under torture, and if found guilty of heresy, apostacy, blasphemy, or not returning their shopping cart to the designated area, be condemned as anathema, excommunicated, and remanded to the civil authority for purification by fire. As for the queers, let ‘em go with lovely parting gifts like fashionable Rosaries and Mass cards.

    Long Live Our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI, Vicar Of Christ, Supreme Pontiff.

    P.S. to FOXY: It is an undeniable and incontestible existential, metaphysical, and statistical CERTAINTY that there IS a God, & that the Holy Bible is SUPERNATURAL.

    No, I’m not going to get into a flame war here about the existence of God. You’ll just have to take my word for it.

  7. I am an American, as most of you know. This anti gay attitude is actually more pervasive here in this country than most will admit. Much of it is fostered by these religious extremists, but it goes deeper. If a young person does not behave in the way the herd accepts as normal, regardless of their sexual preferences, often before they are even old enough to be interested in sex at all, their friends will say, “Stop being so GAY!” If something is not to someones liking it is called “GAY”, as in, “That game is GAY.” It is used as a universal perjorative. This culture of hate toward homosexuality makes life very difficult for young people who ARE gay here in the US. This is one reason why a site such as this is very important, to let them know they are not alone, and to provide them with a place where they can relax for a change, and feel free to express themselves. This is why I became active here, as an older person, to let them know that they are not alone, they are not the first to have faced these problems, and maybe to give some advice if they want it. Have courage, folks; and remember, as Franklin said at the signing of the Declaration of Independence, “We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.”

    1. My two cents – worth even less :p

      The hate seems to be growing in America, churches are fueling the flames, while saying it is Gods Love. Most churches in my area teach kids at a very early age that they are part of “Gods Army” against “Darkness” this is the belief system I grew up in and around. It should not be taken lightly. People honestly believe that the Bible is the literal interpretation of Gods words and desire for what should be done.

      As I have grown and watched religion affect the lives of others and those who follow, I have come to believe that it is a religion of self enslavement.

      One of the biggest issues facing Christianity is the need for evil. Without having something to blame human suffering on, without something to rally its followers against, the movement begins to its loose power.

    2. it is no different anywhere. Here the boys still call things they don’t like “gay” and find it funny. Gays are a joke in most places, be glad the see us as a big enough threat to hate us in the USA. It means we’re winning.

  8. I think there will be a certain number of people who will move their thinking to being more open because of these extremists… in some ways I think helps shift the thought of some people to our side. Normal people are appalled by this shit and will become more sympathetic.

  9. I must say I believe that rude,leftwinger Brit is correct in his statement,but all I seem to see is the hate towards Gay folks being put here on Milkboy. I see nothing about babies being aborted because they are Female babies.I don’t think Franklin had any idea that this country would be going down the road it is now.If this is what you mean by hanging together,I would just as soon hang alone.

  10. Pastor Curtis Knapp, New Hope Baptist Church, Seneca, KS:
    “They [gays] should be put to death.”
    …… And if any one of us should be bold enough to say the same about any of you idiotic religious, you’d have the full weight of our government prosecuting and persecuting us. Say any different and you are a LIAR.

    “[You say], ‘oh, I can’t believe you, you’re horrible. You’re a backwards Neanderthal of a person.’ Is that what you’re calling scripture?”
    …… You fuckin’-A right I am.

    “Is God a Neanderthal backwards… in his morality?”
    …… Yes, but you’re too Neanderthal and stupid to understand that.

    “Is it his word or not?”
    …… NOT

    “It’s his idea, not mine. And I’m not ashamed of it.”
    …… No it isn’t — every fucking word and idea of all that is made up by MAN to control the masses (which, unfortunately, they have been so far successful). And you should be ashamed of it — it’s total, 100% bullshit.

    As darkshadow6921 pointed out (but with slightly different words), without all the brainwashing of their society’s younger people (from age 3 onward), they would die off and they know this.

    1. Why you shouldn’t justify the killing of Christians, the good Bible does allow for slavery of Christians:

      Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

  11. “Thou shalt not kill.”

    Anyone who uses the Bible to justify killing is a hypocritical bastard.

    And I say, if there were less fighting and more cocksucking going on, the world would be a much nicer place.

    1. I have to agree. I’m all in for cocksucking. As much as I love guns and shooting, Orgasms feel better than recoil.

      1. You like sucking cock? According to your bible, you’re going to hell.But I’m sure you’re choosing to misinterpret the bible to fit your needs,like all christians do.

        1. No, Mr. Leonidas. No misinterpretation here. The Holy Bible is crystal clear regarding sexual sins, homo as well as hetero, and after 50 years of sexual activity I have a heap of both to answer for. My confession: I have, to my spiritual peril, taken full advantage of my arresting good looks and sparkling personality, to satiate my ravenous sexual appetite for carnal companionship with both genders. With a couple of dozen girls, and a couple of thousand boys.

          Of course, the painful pangs of religious conscience have been a recurring infliction, from my youth to my seniority. I have been as yet unable (or unwilling? I dunno) to defeat this temptation. And THAT’S why I need a Savior. Lo & Behold, I have one!

          Lucky for me, and also for you and everyone else, Jesus Christ never closes. He’s open for business 24/7/365. My deserved & just punishment in Purgatory awaits me, but I am comforted by the sure and certain hope of His mercy, and our eventual, eternal, reconcilliation.

          1. “No misinterpretation here. The Holy Bible is crystal clear regarding sexual sins, homo as well as hetero, and after 50 years of sexual activity I have a heap of both to answer for.”

            You just lost all credibility with that statement. If it was so “crystal clear,” then why were there hundreds, if not thousands of interpretations, edits, revisions and anything else to make the incredible number of versions for this fictional book?

            You religious always say the same things — and it always comes back to “believe/have faith in this part, but not that part” — so much so, that all those efforts alone prove how fictional it is in its entirety.

            1. You just lost all credibility with that statement. If it was so “crystal clear,” then why were there hundreds, if not thousands of interpretations, edits, revisions and anything else to make the incredible number of versions for this fictional book?

              Surely my dear PenboyX you cannot hold me responsible for the accumulated heresies of the ages. Granted, my church’s teachings have reflected numerous policy changes over time, but our theology has been rather consistent from the beginning; the quality of Catholic Biblical scholarship is unsurpassed, possibly equalled only by the best Rabbinic scholarship of the Talmud.

              If you believe in Christ and eternal life, OR you don’t believe in Him and think death is the end, YOU’RE RIGHT.

            2. Every time one of us asks a simple, logical and rational question, all of you do the very same thing: deflect and double-speak so that your bullshit appears to sound like some educated answer. The problem is, your answers are only just calculated to sound that way, but you never possess the ability to actually answer said questions (just like above) with real answers.

              And this? “My confession: I have, to my spiritual peril, taken full advantage of my arresting good looks and sparkling personality, to satiate my ravenous sexual appetite for carnal companionship with both genders.”

              Puhlease!! GIVE. US. A. FUCKING. BREAK.
              Your ego is writing checks your body [and face] can’t cash.

            3. My dear PenboyX – relax. You’ll hurt yourself. Stay Calm & Carry On. Now, There’s a good lad.

              I thought I answered your question about revisions and edits as well as I could. Not being a Biblical Scholar, or schooled in Apologetics, I could only answer for my own denomination, which I thought I did. My apologies to you for my educational inadequacies. We’re not perfect, just forgiven (LOL- I couldn’t resist).

              As for my confession, it’s all true. I did those things. With all those hot girls and boys. Yumm. And yes, my sex life has often given me pause, fear, and guilt. I have spent a great deal of time, with much anxiety, contemplating my sins. My body was supposed to be a Temple Of The Holy Spirit, instead I turned it into an Amusement Park. A Three-Ring Circus. Thoroughly debauched.

              As for my ego kiting checks, I am regularly astonished, at my age, at how high my sexual credit score still is. God help me.

    2. The word is not kill it is murder. Thou shalt not murder.
      Killing is quite often justified such as when some one rape or murders a family member of your. Then you have a right to seek justice and killing is quite justified. God often killed in the Old Testament (Jericho, and the Egyptians as well as Noahs flood to destroy the Nephillum, it had to be done to keep Lucifer and his minions from stopping prophesied events and preventing Gods word from being true.

  12. Well welcome back PennboyX and your side kick darkshadow6921.I guess you[darkshadow6921]read the Bible a lot more then I,but I’am not trying to prove that I right. I know that Christians were killed for what they believed in.You can print all the verse you wish from the Bible you don’t believe in,and I’ll be happy to read them,but to tell the truth I’am really to lazy to check to see if your bullshiting me or not,because I really don’t care one way or the other what you think. PennboyX and you darkshadow6921 showing your hate for Christians and any religion that believes in God every time something comes on this blog about the hate towards Gays.You say nothing about the ABORTION of FEMALE babies now in this country as well as in China.Some of those aborted female babies lost out on the chance of being a Lesbian,or President down the road,or a mother of a Gay son.Still yet you have nothing to say.The only so called tears you have are for Gay. I care for more then just the Gay,but what could have been Gay,Bi,or Straight,poor or rich,Christians,Jews,Atheist,etc.PennboyX,you just preach your hate sermon more and more,till it becomes BORING.I know what your going to say before you say it,but then I’am just a Christian idiot off spring of a Neanderthal man and woman.@horselips,you are so right,it is cool to be a Roman Catholic these days and we have,which neither Pennboyx or Darkshadow6921 have,that is FAITH.

    1. I never knew I would have “side kick” status. I feel honored.

      Michael, I am sorry you feel offended about my opinions of religious groups that voice their desire for my extermination from this life, based on my lack of submission to their beliefs.

      As far as the scriptures I reference out of the Bible to contradict scriptures of condemnation is only fair because it is the only common ground in which you can debate religious moral arguments.

      I would not debate scientific arguments with religious faith, nor would I argue Christianity with Buddhism beliefs. You must have a common denominator in order to build from in any debate.

      I will admit that I tend not to touch on the issues of abortion, because I do not have a position on it yet. This is sometimes much more than a let the child live, or kill the child issue, and I hope that you can respect my desire not to take it that shallow.

      But for two men who want to support each other and grow old together is something I know first hand. The persecution of the church is also something I know first hand.

      I spent several years being told each and every day how much God hates people like me, I spent these years with daily remarks that I would burn in hell if I died tonight. I was reminded about how uncomfortable I made people feel and was often made to sit alone on a pew so others did not have to sit next to my sickness, all in the name of Jesus Christ.

      As much as I wanted to kill myself, as much as I longed for death, I WAS GIVEN something called FAITH. I had Faith that I could endure the beliefs of the church, I could endure the hate of believers. I could find purpose in my life, and that I could be a better person then those that surrounded me.

      The Bible lost its mysticism for me, it become more of a revelation of truth. I have read the Bible front to back a few times now. I know I should have probably read it more, but I have learned much from it. I have begun to understand why slavery was accepted and fought for in Gods name. I understand why some people see their hate as love. I see why preachers seek to push so hard to make everyone convert.

      “and you darkshadow6921 showing your hate for Christians and any religion that believes in God every time something comes on this blog about the hate towards Gays.”

      So I don’t know why you feel that I actually hate Christians. While I might come off a bit strong at times, I just don’t agree with their interpretation of the Bible. It is much like many of the various denominations that have rose up over interpretations. Like the Bible says, “my people perish for lack of knowledge”

      This was good you made me stop and think about why I believe what I believe, and honestly the answer was easy. I feel much better about who I am simply because you were willing to challenge. Thank you Michael.

    2. Ah, roman catholism, the cult of the kiddy fiddler.

      Where you have an old nazi as leader who actively covered up child rape.
      Whose ideas on condoms has helped spread the AIDS plague.
      As for your faith, what is more than a misguided hope that you will go to heaven when you die ?

      In the UK you can to Heaven today, it’s in Villiers Street.

  13. i don’t understand how someone can swear by the ten commandments and then in the next sentence say something like this.

  14. I still have not read any comment on the Abortion of babies because of their Gender.I guess no one gives a shit.From what I see it still is just a gay issue with you guys. Oh shed your tears for all us gays,because this country keeps going down this road there just may be no gays left. There are extremist in just about all Religions,but that doesn’t make all Religion evil,any more then all Atheists are evil,but there is Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler. I know Hitler wasn’t to fond of Homosexuals.They where on his hit list along with Jews,and Gypsies,Retarded people,etc.

    1. Maybe because abortions because of the baby’s gender are mostly an urban legend among Christian fanatics?

      And, unlike what Fox News keeps saying, Hitler certainly wasn’t an atheist. “Hitler often associated atheism with bolshevism, communism, and Jewish materialism” [Source: Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939. Vol. 1. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1942, pp. 240, 378, 386.] He was actually rather Christian.

    2. Red Herring Alert. Abortion of babies because of their gender is what the Republicans (and their mouthpiece Fox News) have been spouting lately as they move to enact laws to “protect women”. The reason you haven’t heard it from any other source is that the information is neither credible nor supportable by any known statistical review. The fact that nobody commented doesn’t demonstrate a lack of caring about an issue, an issue must first actually exist before one can care about it.

  15. Be careful what you say …I’m agree with that Christians and It proved to us that gay people are god’s enemy. really aren’t they?! they do sth that has been forbidden by god and there is no changing in it. all of the god’s religions say the similar thing…Islam-real christians- and also Jewish and Jews. please think about it(But I think your feels will stop you to use your mind correctly! God also says that If people keep on doing guilt I will make their hearts heavy and lock their eyes and ears and won’t guide them .)
    And one more thing…God is a Neanderthal backwards?!” really you think like this? ok it’s not important for you. You just have to do his rules because he’s God!
    and don’t you read history?! this Neanderthal God destroy the whole city of Pompeii because of this guilt of homosexuality.

    1. Pompeii??? I think you meant Sodom and Gomorrah. Which were not destroyed due to homosexuality (As is sadly commonly taught) In fact the reason they were destroyed is stated quite clearly “Because they hardened their hearts and became a law unto themselves.” Why it is that most of Christ’s followers think it is AOK to harp on Homosexuality as “The sin” is beyond me. Premarital sex, adultery, and divorce (Fro reasons other then having an affair or abuse) would all seem to be much more problematic? I mean either we as Christians should prosecute ALL sin, or follow Christ’s teachings, and forgive those who repent, and treat as honored guest those who are not of the faith.

  16. Bitte fangt nicht von Hitler an!!!!!!

    Es reichte das er damals so viele “Anhänger” hatte!
    Und diese Hass Prediger machen nichts anderes!!

    WIR,und die Anderen haben doch aus der Vergangenheit gelernt! ( OK leider nicht alle)
    Wir dürfen nicht zulassen,das wieder so viel HASS gesprochen wird!!!
    Und GOTT??? Ich glaube nicht dran! WIR sind für unser Leben selber verantwortlich!
    Mich wundert wirklich nur, das diese Hass “Prediger” noch Anhänger haben!!!

  17. @Borna: which begs the question: what are you doing hanging on a queer site? Not being nasty just wondering?

  18. The irony here is that it takes more of a conscious choice to be religious than it does to be homosexual.

  19. as if religion can be separated from bigotry, hate and violence… all you have to do is read the bible or the koran. You’ll find all the justification you need to hate others, and to kill even others

  20. Great comments and contentions. What abortion has to do with loving an other guy I do not quite get…

    Like many a reader of this site I was raised Christian. My local Presbyterian church was both the main social media of my life and reason for living when I was in High School. I was a deacon at 16 and an elder at 20. Then blew them all away by coming out at 21.

    The real deal is being true to your inner self (as long as you are not harming other beings). Along the way a spiritual teacher I know likened life to ether ‘paint by the numbers’ or draw it yourself.

    Real spiritual folks draw it them selves.

    1. Because it takes away responsibility for the crimes committed in the name of a so called god. If you dig deep enough in that book you will find at least one verse that will support what ever hatred and bigotry keeps you going day after day.

      Either it’s “god told me” as I say in the above paragraph or the even funnier one, “the devil made me do it.” It never is I am responsible for my actions.

      So many supposed christians say that people like that kid’s father and the preacher aren’t what they believe in yet they just don’t DO anything to change it. They just don’t do anything to take back their christianity out of the murderous hands of those hate mongers.

      Interesting tid bit. Check at what number in the ten commandments thou shalt not kill is. It really explains why those “christians” can ask for the death of all gays without an ounce of remorse.

    2. To answer the question: Why do people take the Bible seriously? The answer is : Because their idiots.

      Stephen.

      1. I think it is because many people have to believe in something, regardless whether they understand it or not. For myself, The Bible is antiquated and impenetrable. Irks the shit out of me that so many people believe they have it all figured out, or they simply follow blindly. The gall.

  21. @darkshadow6921:Your comment #43 was just out of this world. I feel that I know what you may have gone through in school.I assume that I’am older then you,because when I went to Catholic school we where told that the Jews killed Christ,of course the Church has since change this view.I also remember being told that I would burn in the fires of Hell if I didn’t say my morning and night prayers,and it goes on and on .A lot has changed since then and for the better.I,unlike you have not studied the Bible,for it is much to deep for me. Thanks again for you response,and I’am glad you feel honored for the title[SIDEKICK].It does fit you,now that I know you a bit better.Your friend,hopefully.Michael.

  22. Generally, I tend to shy away from religious discussions on the grounds that they are futile against those who ‘believe’. God always has a ‘plan’ when things become ridiculously illogical and the Bible has no answer.

    Come on folks….use the magnificent brain that evolution created for us. The Gospels used in the Bible were selected by religious leaders and an Emperor at the time for political/control tactics. The other Gospels were left out altogether. So….this idea that the Bible was written by the hand of God was/is and will always be; a crock. Further, it was written by people who shit in fields, owned women and traded them as property….along with many other ridiculous customs…not to mention the Bible is completely patriarchal-Paul being the biggest misogynous that ever lived.

    And the biggest fault in Christianity is that they never let the Bible’s teachings (and the Bible itself) ‘evolve’. They stayed steadfast and stupidly loyal to a book of antiquity & fiction. ‘God’s New Army’ is trying to live by Leviticus Law. Well, you really can’t do that unless you live by all of it including the mixing fabrics, eating shellfish and women menstruating part (remember the ‘no evolving’ ban?).

    Finally, I’ve seen damn few adults suddenly take up the Bible because they thought it was the ‘right’ thing to do. Usually they’ve had some near death experience and they assume the only reason they’re here is due to some higher power. The rest of you ‘believers’….well you were led into it when you were children. How that’s fair I haven’t worked out yet….

    So….believe if you must, but change it you must. In the 15,000 word vocabulary of the ancient Hebrews there was no word for homosexuality…or even a concept for it. In the New Testament, Jesus never said anything about homosexuals, nor did he ever rail against them. The real hater core of the Bible and the ban on homosexuality came in the Middle Ages…again for control and political motivations. The way I see it, you Christians are a tortured and confused lot trying to sell blue sky to people who fly in blue skies.

  23. @Miklboys: Read Table Talk [ Adilf Hitler,London,Weidenfeld & Nicholson,1953] It seem that the Christian and Atheist world wants nothing to do with this man.He was brought up and confirmed as a Catholic,but he abandoned Christianity by the time he was in control of Germany.His actions put outside the Church in a Similar manner an out spoken Atheist would not really be an Atheist if he where attending church and studing the Bible.As for the abortion by gender,a bill was dedeated in the House by 246-168 vote.You need a 2/3 vote which they didn’t have.I don’t believe it was a Urban Legend as you stated,not when you get 414 people to vote on it.I know this is a far left wing blog,but as my Daddy told me some time ago,get to know those on the other side of you beliefs,you well find that they may be right,but not in this case.

    1. Freud described religion as an obsessive compulsive neurosis and that homosexuality is not a mental illness. An that was back in the 30’s.

  24. Another rant from an obscure white trash preacher. Please don’t get the notion that the vast American majority subscribes to this rubbish, the conservatives as well as the liberals.

  25. In islam it is more enforced to Kill or Murder Gays, more than this supposed Christian group, I know for a fact in the Christian Scriptures of what i have read of them, nowhere in the new Testament did Jesus ever say to Kill or Murder Gays, plus murder is also forbidden in the Old Testament of what i have read of it…………

  26. Genesis 1, King James Version
    (skip to:)
    ….. “26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: . . .”
    ….. Wait a minute (a ‘god’ minute). Just who is “us?” This “all-powerful, all-knowing thing actually had help?
    So, if “he” made man in “his image,” just who does he look like? White, Asian or black?
    And, if he made all men, then it stands to reason that he also made all the homosexuals as well (according to “scripture”). And, if a “god” went to the trouble (this took a whole day, right?) of making homosexuals, why is it then he’s condemning them so recklessly? Why, if “he” actually created them [us], does he now “think” we’re scum?

    ….. “27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    ….. So he “created” male and female humans — that includes sexual reproduction, right (So we can “be fruitful and multiply”)? So, why is it he created pleasurable sex but didn’t [desire to] use it when “creating” his “son” [jesus]? That’s kind of the “gay way” to do things, don’t you think? Why was it through a “virgin” (yeah, right)? And, why was it in some dump barn with the animals that we’re supposed to have dominion over? Never, in the histories of societies have there ever been such a dumpy birth to such regality — and a “god and his son” would most certainly be regal, correct? Humble? Not on your life, if he’s supposed to be this all-powerful, all-knowing entity.

    Sorry, but those entire scenarios are, to put it very mildly, preposterous. But, as has been shown for thousands of years (and counting), that’s exactly what is needed to brainwash the very young into believing this 100% fictional hogwash. After the “little ones” are sufficiently brainwashed, it’s a piece of cake to get the remaining of the masses “in line.”

  27. PenboyX. Try and get a christian to explain how God managed to get all of the worlds animals into the ark withoutt them eating each other or drowning in their own shit? And watch the lttle hamster going round the wheel inside their head make them break into sweat.

    Stephen.

    1. The most important verse in the Holy Bible is GENESIS 1:1. If you can wrap your head around THAT, everything else is EASY.

      The whole Ark episode is planted thick with miracles, from bringing the animals to Noah, to their feeding and upkeep, disembarking, and redistribution. All assisted by the Big Guy. As for the water – if God needs an extra couple of million cubic miles of water to cover the mountains with, He simply adds it. When He’s done with it, He takes it all away. Pretty cool, eh? Yeah, it’s good to be God.

      1. “The most important verse in the Holy Bible is GENESIS 1:1. If you can wrap your head around THAT, everything else is EASY.”

        To “wrap your head around THAT.” you would need to open up your head and remove all brain matter. But then again, with a loss of brain matter, I concede you’re right, “everything else [would be] EASY.”

        As for the “Ark,” I believe whiterabbit brought up enough logic to put that idiocy to rest. But, as said before, all of you will never accept real logic and scientific reasoning.

        [As a side note about the ridiculous concept of "heaven": Do ALL the children who have perished because of a natural disaster go to that equally stupid concept of "hell" simply because they "didn't repent" and receive "salvation" (you know, between 0-8 years old, as an example)?]

        And don’t get me started with the totally asinine concept of “prayer.”

      2. Except that in the Babylonian Bible, Noah was on a raft, on the flooded Nile, running from the tax collector with his family and some animals. It’s easy to see how a more grandiose, fictional story evolved from that scenario.

        The scientists who know such things say for a rain with that much intensity to cover and flood the earth in 40 days……that much moisture in the atmosphere would have crushed all living life on the planet…including Noah et al. But then the ‘believers’ counter back that stated ‘time’ in the Bible may not really be ‘time’ as we know it etc….

        Like any good kid from MO….show me. Show me the Spear of Destiny, show me real remnants and pics of the Ark, show me proof that the Shroud of Turin isn’t a fake and finally, show me the Arc of The Covenant in all its grand glory/power. Basically, show me SOME kind of verifiable archeological proof that any of the-larger-than-life events in the Bible ever took place.

    2. And of course that would be bad enough if he could get all the animals needed from Africa and Eurasia. But how did he get the animals from the America’s and Eurasia? which of course were unknown then. And remember, unlike the song, “the animals went in two by two”, they didn’t. f memory serves, it was 7 pairs of clean animals and 2 pairs of unclean animals.

      Stephen.

  28. I’m starting to think these ultra religious types are fearing they will be outed like the Pilgrims were back in the day. Or that are fearful of the only world they know being destroy. Losing something you know your whole life can be scary but we must grow from it and not try to keep holding on to it. Things change and you must learn to adapt. As a child I learn that the hard way but these people seem to never had to deal with this ever in their lives it seems. But most rather destroy the ones who can adapt than do it themselves. Still if they go the way of the Pilgrims, where could they go?

    I mention this to a friend it’s fear that keeps these people stuck. Add that with money and ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’ you get a bad mix. It’s all fear and money in this game but something is going to give. One of the two will run out at some point.

    In short, it’s all fear, people. It’s a fight or flee issue. Sadly I thought that was meant for bear attacks, not a gay couple moving two doors down from you.

  29. @ horselips: It is nice to see someone make comments back at the Atheists as you do with out bad mouthing them. It shows that you’re cool and calm in your thoughts. Now PENNBOYX is a completely different book. I find it funny that you,PennboyX,who by all his comments claims to be an Atheist and reads from the Bible all the time,even if it is the King James Version. If your the Atheist you maintain to be,why do you even have a Bible,or do you just rent it. Why do you,PennbyX have to Blaspheme all that I believe in. If you where to write in a cool, calm matter maybe,just maybe,I could understand where you’re coming from. There is no reason for us to hate each other. I’am sure there is more then adequate amount of hate going around with out you adding to it.

    1. Michael, you seriously need to attend some adult education classes (at the very least). What made you come to the conclusion that I have bibles? You must not “browse & surf” the web much, because you can see nearly the entire content of bibles online. Also, if you can read through my posts, how is it you can’t spell my name properly (and so many times)?

      Interesting how you take so much time to praise another religious person that won’t/can’t provide any real answers (you know, facts and truth) but then chide me for asking real, logical and (reasonably) scientific questions about religion. Both of you (and all religious, frankly) continually prove what I just posted earlier — when confronted with real questions about your bullshit, all you know how to do is deflect and double-speak only to the point that your “answers” (I’m being incredibly liberal here) only sound “intelligent” (to the less intelligent).

      I do write “in a cool, calm matter (but I think you want to mean “manner”).” It’s just that you (and those like you) appear to get “offended” when anything about religion gets questioned by anyone with decidedly more intelligence and can understand logic and rationality. And I’m seriously baffled at how you have determined that you can never learn anything from me (an “Atheist”), but you continually write at lower than 5th grade level (and I’m being generous) even after several others in here have told you the very same thing.

  30. It is funny in a sorrowful way that this photo of a dead lad,who is killed because he is gay,is holding a Cross in his hands. Of course this photo isn’t real,but it does hit home somewhat.

  31. @PenboyX : I just wanted to see how long it took you to correct me. It’s not like I took an N from you. I gave you extra N.

  32. And of course that would be bad enough if he could get all the animals needed from Africa and Eurasia. But how did he get the animals from the America’s and Australia, New Zealand and all the other islands? which of course were unknown then. And remember, unlike the song, “the animals went in two by two”, they didn’t. f memory serves, it was 7 pairs of clean animals and 2 pairs of unclean animals.

    Stephen.

  33. And of course that would be bad enough if he could get all the animals needed from Africa and Eurasia. But how did he get the animals from the America’s and Australia, New Zealand and all the other islands? which of course were unknown then. And remember, unlike the song, “the animals went in two by two”, they didn’t. If memory serves, it was 7 pairs of clean animals and 2 pairs of unclean animals.

    Stephen.

    1. The land down under has some wird animals that did not find their way into the big boat. But in those days the world was middle east and eurocentric at best and still flat. Austrailia and New Zealand did not exist.

    1. “[Your] Right … that’s why I take Noah’s story as just that,a story.”

      And yet, you (and millions like you) are basing your entire [social/political/philosophical] life based on that and a few dozen more totally false “stories” just like that one. And every one have been and are proven to be just as false.

      That statement and idea is just one reason we (of normal logic) question the intellectual capacity of any of you (past the age of reasoning and adulthood) who insist on believing in those false promises and outright LIES. Yet, you and others like you will continue to “fight” for this falsehood and waste your time trying to convert any others you can to this bullshit (by your own words, above).

      Why don’t you people just start treating it exactly as it was and is — a totally fictional book and stop shoving that crap down our throats?

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