CNN vs. Shota

Earlier this week Japan banned the possession of sexually explicit photos and videos involving any person under the age of 18. It’s worth noting that this ban only applies to real people, not drawn characters in anime, manga and video games. And this is something US news station CNN has a huge problem with apparently considering their consistent lobbying against these fictional works in Japan. They asked their audience on Twitter:

Now here are some of the answers people on Twitter had for CNN:





This subject has been a hot topic in Japan for a couple of years now and many users of forums and blogs like Hachima agree with the sentiments expressed in the tweets above.  A commenter on 2ch, a large and famous Japanese forum, made the point that these manga are neither exclusively aimed at nor mostly done by men: "There are women who draw these manga, read them, and play these games."

"These. Are. Just. Drawings," said another user in a comment. "Why don’t you guys say this after you lower your crime rate first," asked a snarky commentator looking at the Americans who have a much higher rate of crimes and rape than the Japanese. "Yanks picking fictional Lolita regulation over gun regulation." added another.

For many people involved in this discussion the argument is not necessarily about defending sexualized depiction of kids in manga and anime, but freedom of speech and art. When it comes to that freedom whether it’s sexualized comics or gory video games, where, do you draw the line?

via Karl Andersson

  

34 thoughts on “CNN vs. Shota”

  1. From what I understand of the evidence around it is that the availability of porn decreases the sex crime rate & that the same is true for this type of fictional porn in regards to what it depicts.

    ‘Moral’ anxieties & a need to ‘do something’ overwhelm any consideration of the actual effects on those the laws are designed to protect nearly always though.

    There’s an aspect of ‘the west knows best’ shining through here too. More knowledgeable commentators talk about Japan having simply a different relationship to fantasy than the West.

    1. “From what I understand of the evidence around it is that the availability of porn decreases the sex crime rate & that the same is true for this type of fictional porn in regards to what it depicts.”

      Yet it’s pretty easy to find heaps of evidence that shows how porn increases sex crimes.

      The arguments against anime (that i’ve read) have nothing to do with whether the victim is a fake kid or a real one. It’s to do with what goes on in the mind of a predator who is sexually attracted to kids, and how viewing even anime kids might strengthen that deviant attraction to the point that he could eventually carry out his crime against a real kid. Like needing a stronger and stronger “fix” to satisfy an ever-increasing desire.

      1. Why don’t you show us some of your evidence if it’s so easy to find?

        Because I only read about studies saying the exact opposite of what you claim.

        1. Geeze! Gimme a REAL challenge! Here’s 2 to start with …

          “Early exposure (under fourteen years of age) to pornography is related to greater involvement in deviant sexual practice, particularly rape. Slightly more than one-third of the child molesters and rapists in this study claimed to have at least occasionally been incited to commit an offense by exposure to pornography. Among the child molesters incited, the study reported that 53 percent of them deliberately used the stimuli of pornography as they prepared to offend. W. L. Marshall, “The Use of Sexually Explicit Stimuli by Rapists, Child Molesters, and Nonoffenders,” The Journal of Sex Research 25, no.2 (May 1988): 267-88

          “The habitual consumption of pornography can result in a diminished satisfaction with mild forms of pornography and a correspondingly strong desire for more deviant and violent material.” D. Zillmann, “Effects of Prolonged Consumption of Pornography,” in Pornography: Research Advances and Policy Considerations, eds. D. Zillman and J. Bryant (Hillsdale, N.J.: Erlbaum, 1989), 129.

          Why didn’t you challenge Felix K to provide evidence for HIS claim? It’s funny, isn’t it, that when people choose to believe or justify something they want to believe is true, they won’t bother doing their own homework to find evidence that might prove themselves wrong. Nor will they challenge others that AGREE with their point of view to back up their claims!

          “Because I only read about studies saying the exact opposite of what you claim.”

          That’s because you only WANT to read about studies saying the exact opposite of what I suggest. I haven’t CLAIMED anything – just provided references.

          1. @ Rokker:So you are really up to date with the two studies you refer to
            1. is from 1988,; as I found out, W.L Marshall used phallometric Studies and I read: ” On the bases of these observations the routine use of phallometric assessments as part of the evaluation of sexual offenders is not recommended.
            2. is also 25 years back!!!
            It is a rare idea to write: “Why didn’t you challenge Felix K to provide evidence for HIS claim?”

            I’d like to know, what is of any interest today about such “Studies”, you cited? The only point of significance is that they suit your opinion.
            None of your ancient studies shows anything about Felix K’s stand to fictual porn.

            So is it up to you, to make up the rules, what people may ask you – or not?

            1. Actually I don’t give a rats arse how old these two studies are. People believed the earth was flat for thousands of years until Eratosthenes came along and showed it was spherical – and even then many wouldn’t believe it until they photographed it in 1946.

              “July” asked me to provide evidence, which I did. Now it’s YOUR turn (or his) to provide me with studies that are more recent.

              And what is “fictual porn” anyway?

            2. Wow, I came back to this wayyy late.

              A few things – it seems like there’s a basic question of fact at stake here. ‘Does the availability of pornography decrease or increase sex crime?’ should about sum it up. We can put up evidence for or against that, that part shouldn’t be hard.

              Beyond that, you mention you don’t care how old the studies you put up are. In Psychology or Sociology if you’re going to reference studies to buttress an argument to keep it intellectually relevant you need to engage with current research.

              For fair play though, here’s a series of studies – many recent & one prior to those you linked too finding conclusions to the opposite effect;

              http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1540-4560.1973.tb00094.x/abstract

              http://www.yapaka.be/sites/yapaka.be/files/actualite/pornography-rape-and-the-internet.pdf

              http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160252709000715

              http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=913013

              If we need a definition of “fiction porn” I’d say media depicting events that didn’t actually happen. Fiction as a concept shouldn’t be too hard, we can understand that say what happened in a fantasy drawing hasn’t happened whereas what happened in a documented video has.

              Esteban has a very good point about sample selection. If I tried to make conclusions about the general population from a convict subsample for a psychology assessment my lecturer would laugh, chew me up & spit me out. It’s understandable if unfortunate if journalists with a cultural axe to grind have reported that as some kind of valid connection though.

              Of interest with the second study by Zillman is that it highlights exactly the kind of working effect the hypothesis that pornography decreases sex crime purports to exist – that of desensitization “diminished satisfaction”. I.e, it works as an outlet – people fap & get bored rather then pent up & act out.

              I’ll try pm you rokker to see if you want to counter my reply.

            3. Thanks for the references, Felix.

              Actually I started off in this discussion without any opinion one way or the other – just that when you mentioned how the availability of porn decreases the sex crime rate I went on line to find articles about it and the first ones that came up seemed to show the opposite. There seems to be a lot of opinion online for both sides of this one!

          2. Generally speaking, when your sample population is convicted offenders you’re going to get the responses of people who lack the self-control to process stimuli without acting on it.

            1. That could be true, but by the same token the fact that there ARE people in society who lack the self-control to process stimuli without acting on it means that there’s a problem. And so I guess it means that society has to decide what is more important – protecting vulnerable kids from those people, or protecting the rights of the rest of society to look at drawings of underage sex.

              The way I see it – if you find yourself attracted to pictures of underage kids in sexual situations, then I’d be willing to bet you’d also be attracted to the real thing. And whether or not a person is one who will act on the stimuli – well, you won’t know until it’s too late.

            2. @ rokker: Concerning the protection of vulnerable kids:
              “So may be you could sign this statement:
              “I agree with being strictly against all bullying and hatered of LGBT-peoples , motivated or based on any religious background.”
              This is just a simple question that could show, how honest you are with “protecting vulnerable kids”.

            3. Miles, sure – I would be the first in the line to sign such a statement!

            4. @ Miles the Survey-Man
              “I agree with being strictly against all bullying and hatered of LGBT-peoples , motivated or based on any religious background.”
              ☞Though off thread I believe your question would be better served had your statement read as such…
              “I agree with being strictly against all bullying and hatred of LGBT-peoples regardless, be it religious based or not.”
              ❦Had you asked it of me before in such a manner not on the “Comments” page but maybe on this post: http://milkboys.org/against-the-defence-of-ex-gay-therapy/ which I note you never commented on then I may have answered in the affirmative; be it I believed that ‘you personally’ had the right to ask it of me. IMO

            5. I doubt you would also argue that a person who enjoys the special effects, direction, lighting, music and tension of horror movies would be inclined to cut up camp counselors with gardening equipment.

      2. Prof. dr. Swaab and Milton Diamond Ph.D. would disagree with you. They did studies which show that virtual childporn leads to a decrease in sex crimes against children.

      3. You mean like how violent television shows with lots of guns causes mentally ill gun owners to go to a school and kill 26 first grade children?

  2. No surprise there. CNN is well known for stirring shit where’s there’s none to be stirred.

        1. @Miles
          “Also commentors can be trying to deceive.” CNN, yes?
          ☞As I only spoke regarding CNN’s part in this matter which was well described in the Otaku magazine article link that I placed and ‘included’ the actual picture that they blurred while trying to make it appear as child porn yet in actuality it was a violent though standard manga.
          Karl Andersson’s link,(in red) under the post also gives some details re this deception on CNN’s part.

    1. Quote from above article you linked:

      ” But I was in denial. It wasn’t in fact true, any of it. Worse than being wrong, it was harmful to many people—and caused me years of pain in my own life. Which is why I have this to say to the Rick Perrys of the world: You don’t understand this issue. At all. ” [Emphasis mine.]

  3. All I can say is that GIF above is amazingly well done — it would take very little to transform it into an extremely human-like three-dimensional video (coloring, texturing, etc).

  4. For the UN-edited version of the cover photo of above anime, look here:
    http:// www. amazon. co. jp/dp/4040701887/

  5. For some reason, I seem to be unable to reply directly to posts, so excuse me please if this comment isn’t tied directly to the posts to which I’m referring.

    First, on the topic of whether porn, real or created, is a deterrent or accelerant to actual abuse. The fact is, the issue can’t even be argued at this time, because the viewing of actual child porn is so taboo in the US that it’s even illegal for researchers to look at it, therefore there can be no real research done on the subject. A real shame actually, because if it’s actually true that it provides a healthy release and acts as a deterrent, that means there is likely abuse out there happening that could be prevented.

    In fact, this is a running theme when it comes to minor-attracted adults, or just those situational offenders who make up the majority of sex crimes against children. The idea is so abhorrent to society, and such a trove of wealth when it comes to politicians and others who profit from the sex-abuse industry, that no true research can be done. Which means those men and women out there who are aware of the feelings they are having have absolutely no one to turn to for help. They can’t talk to a mental health professional about their feelings, because they know they’ll be reported to authorities, even if they haven’t committed a crime.

    Finally, I’d like to quote Adam who, in response to the supposition that fake child porn might actually decrease the urge to offend states – “You mean like how violent television shows with lots of guns causes mentally ill gun owners to go to a school and kill 26 first grade children?”

    You do understand, that television shows to make anyone do anything, don’t you? It was the mental illness you mentioned that’s the factor in question here. That’s just as inane as suggesting that a song about suicide causes kids to commit suicide themselves. I’ve listened to the songs, and watched the movies, and played the violent video games. So far, no murders. In other words, crazy is going to find a way to be crazy and doesn’t need any help getting there. They could have grown up on a diet of only Andy Griffith and the Golden Girls and they are still going to go on their killing spree. Of course, if I could watch only those two shows that might be enough to put me over the edge as well.

  6. Yeah… this is a really old and tired debate to which I can only add [as previously stated] They. Are. Only. Drawings.

    Furthermore; hard to believe that CNN has exhausted ALL other potential for hard news and has to go poking about another country for something to get their base [equally as nutty as ANY who watch Fox Noise, IMHO] all involved to sell them soap, cars & tampons… just sayin’

    On a related note – is that some kinda SMOOOOOTH move in the attached .gif; a one handed tummy stroke and pants unbutton ! !DAYUM… is there a tutorial for that somewhere ? I need it for reasons… and science… and cute boys with unnatural hair color who pilot giant robots.

    Thanks, Josh!

  7. It isn’t what you look at – it’s what you see! The issue tends to be that people want to legislate moral behavior but they think they can do it by creating laws that punish and restrain people even if an action hasn’t been taken!
    Folks look just at this simple gif and see a boy being molested or they see a boy being felt up by someone or… .
    I don’t approve of kiddie porn but I refuse to believe that all teens are being taken advantage of by older folks or that it is “wrong” to acknowledge that kids have sex with each other and that loads of folks, of all ages, like to read about that.

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