Cross about Cross Dressing

Qatar, which was chosen to host the football world cup 2022, is having a fashion debate. Cross dressing is on the rise among young Qataris. The local press says that more tradition-minded locals are upset by the growing number of young women affecting a masculine style of dress, baggy trousers, short hair and deep voices. These women, who call themselves boyat, which translates as both tomboy and transsexual (and is derived from the English word boy), are being seen in schools and on university campuses where some are said to harass their straiter-laced sisters.

Photo by MagicalRainbowFairy | Found by O Sopro de um Sonho

In an episode of a talk show on Qatari television, called Lakom al Karar (The Decision is Yours), a leading academic said that the “manly women” phenomenon was part of a “foreign trend” brought into Qatar and the Gulf by globalisation. Foreign teachers, the internet and satellite television have been blamed. So have foreign housemaids, for badly influencing children in their care. The studio audience was divided over how to respond. Some called for the death penalty for cross-dressers, while others favoured medical treatment. A rehabilitation centre for Qatari boyat has been set up, but a local report says that as many as 70% of them refuse to give up their “abnormal behaviour”.

It is not just Qataris who are rattled. A year ago the ministry of social affairs in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) launched a campaign against “masculine women”. The project, entitled “Excuse me, I’m a girl”, involved workshops, lectures and television programmes, stressing the virtues of femininity and raising awareness of the presumed dangers of women looking like men. An emirates’ foundation is helping to fund a research project on “gender identity disorder among Emirati youth”.

  

50 thoughts on “Cross about Cross Dressing”

    1. Well, you can’t blame them, it’s in their holy book, they have been empowered by their God to make these judgements, after all, who needs science and logic when you have divine dispensation to make these wierdos bow to the holy teachings.

      1. Haha, I actually managed to write that with a straight face.
        Also, she’s bloody stunning.

    2. “Why is the default position for these medieval bastards always the death penalty ?”

      Do you mean by “medieval bastards” peeps like Huckabee and McFarland and the other US Politicians and media folks calling for the death penalty for Mr. Assange?

      1. He means exactly who he says he means, if someone wants to kill someone for being gay then their thought process is medieval and primitive.

        Yes, even if it is people like Huckabee and McFarland, and even if it is Muslim imams calling for the killing of gay people or the stoning of Jews.

        Intolerance, hatred and barbarism exists in every religion, in every group of people. Don’t dismiss or downplay that, FreeFox.

        1. “Intolerance, hatred and barbarism exists in every religion, in every group of people. Don’t dismiss or downplay that, FreeFox.”

          I didn’t mean to. I agree that condemning anyone for the way the dress – and especially condemning anyone to death – is horrible and (if you want to use that word) medieval. I just wanted to point out that such medieval morals are sadly widespread everywhere. Bigotry, hysteria, and the wish to exterminate what peeps don’t understand or can’t come to terms or what holds up an uncompromising mirror to them with exists in a lot of places.

          1. You know I despise the fundamentalist nut jobs every bit as much as the mad mullahs but not even Bill O’Reilly wants to murder everyone who disagrees with him.

  1. “The studio audience was divided over how to respond. Some called for the death penalty for cross-dressers, while others favoured medical treatment.”

    That’s just sad. :(

  2. Qatar + football world cup = WTF is wrong with the people that make this decision?
    Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, etc. as neighbors… And all those thing they have death penalty for…
    Anyone know a place where i can bet how much people get sentence to death for stupid things??

    “These women, who call themselves boyat”
    They call themselves or others say they call themselves? We been in this road before…

  3. As usual, a lot of anti-Arab grumbling from the peanut gallery. That seems particularly pointless (and counter-productive) because the people you are advocating for (the cross-dressers) are also Qatari and Muslim! Who says they don’t embody real Muslim values, while the social conservatives are the frauds?

  4. Perhaps we should stop the Islamophobia for a second and realise only 100 years ago the Western world was just as bad.

    1. You’re joking, aren’t you?

      Islamophobia is a joke. Islamic countries throughout the world kill people for leaving Islam, imprison or hang people for being gay, subjugate women (women can’t even drive cars in Saudi Arabia), and tax non-Muslims to live in Islamic countries.

      A recent poll of Muslim attitudes towards gay people in London found that not *one* in one thousand Muslims polled said that homosexuality should be accepted. Do you not see how sad that is?

      Of course, if you dare to criticise the intolerance within the Islamic community then you’re instantly labeled Islamophobic. The very idea of this term is just a way of silencing any genuine criticism for Islam.

      Islam, just like Christianity, deserves the same rational criticism that every belief system should have. This is not an issue of anything other than human rights, and no where in the world is human rights abused more than the Islamic world. Yes, 150 years ago the answer would have been Christianity, but what the Western world has done over the last few decades is work tirelessly to understand human rights, womens rights, equality and gay rights.

      Call me politically correct, call me racist (even though my grandpa is Asian), apples are apples.

      Barky, people like you are so typically in-tune with criticising our own faults, but any criticism of the intolerance in the Muslim community and you pull up the same card. This isn’t about Islam, this is about human rights. Also, people have every right to call someone a “medieval bastard” for wanting to kill someone for being gay. How naive and sad can you be to “respect” people who would have you killed?

      P.S. I thought you’d like to know, the Islamic Council passed a resolution in the United Nations to remove “sexual orientation” from a petition to end the death penalty.

  5. Sorry… long disposition here. I hope it’s balanced. :D

    Christianity is every bit as entrenched in the West as Islam has been in the Middle East. Both were Colonial in their missions to spread the True Word of Faith to the Heathen. Both believes they are Right, and the proper deliverers of the True Way. Both turned to the sword to drive out demon paganism from the heathens. Both exemplified the power of culture and science as well as religion in the past. One is not better than the other.

    The last 200 years has seen more cultures open to exploration, than in the last 3 to 4000 years. And in that time many many ‘lesser’ cultures as determined by the explorers, crashed head long into modernization, faltered and died leaving the people with half memories and lies.

    Boo Hoo. I can hear it now.

    And that would be right. This is a process of development that has been going on as far back as you choose to take it. But now it has become Global. Time is the same except what we used to do takes so much less time than ever before. Our minds race and create, as never before, and it is only increasing. The speed of development scares people. Modernism will steamroll over any resistant culture, particularly ones that have traditions that are rigid and intractable. There is violence, civil unrest, misery etc. etc. etc. and the world keeps on going.

    Qatar seems very very modern for its resources but culturally it is rigid and conservative. We see their treatment of women as being medieval… when we treat ours the same way just less openly. We don’t like Vaginal Mutilation but we keep girls in their role by paying the less consistently than men in the same role. Some of the Western ways may be more subtle, some aren’t. Conservatives conserve according to Joe Scarborough, PhD. Conserving family values, and traditional values from being lost, just as the Mullahs have done and fight hard to do.

    We called it Cultural Relativism when I was growing up. Seeing other cultures as valuable and as necessary as ours. Cultural Relativism is a dirty phrase to Conservatives. And now is largely ignored as we go in to ‘straighten out’ the inequities of ‘less cultures’… barbaric ones like those under the shining materialistic mantle of Qatar.

    It is thought that Extremist/Conservative Religious Movements occur with great social stress. It is a symptom of the pain seen in almost, if not all cases, of cultures clashing and being subsumed.
    Again… a normal, cyclical process when you look at the desiccated remains of History and Pre-history, but quite a different thing when you are in the middle of it.

    Volumes have been written on this for over 200 years. Imagine Victorians seeing this process in a few cases and marveling at it. Colonialism was GREAT for Britain, or France… not so much for those places colonized, except it yanked many into an almost parallel position of development with the Western world, just as the great cultures of the past, China, India, and Egypt did in their times, but today it is again, Global. Same process on a larger field.
    And people resist it. They will resist it until it becomes what they know and they will resist the next upheaval that comes from this constant process of change. Good, bad or indifferent it is still change.
    So we can cock a snoot at Qatar choosing to forget our own inadequacies, or worse deny them outright as we have been doing for the last decade and a half. Or we can work along with them, and still have resistance and pain and social unrest. Diplomacy and military force work about the same in efficiency, about 50%. My personal opinion is where there is social upheaval, send aid. Real aid, not silly tradition crap, but medicine and food and shelter… man strength to help pull them back from the brink. That is appreciated and helps. The rest of it, not so much. Right now Africa is going through the worst developmental crisis seen in a long time, and has been since various colonial groups imposed their view upon the continent. But the Africans were still going through it, still fighting the momentum of development or change really.

    So yeah, this is disturbing on a human level. Just as the Clitoral Circumcision is … it’s ghastly. Face it.
    But it is also relativistic to the forces the Quatrains are dealing with. Americans are going through it too, this process, and resisting it. You aren’t going to solve it. There is no peaceable kingdom. But we can help each other to go through it. It’s like growing except there is no end, no goal.

    It just keeps changing. Cool huh? I love it.

    1. Wow! I didn’t always agreed with your posts on this board, but, man… what a cool comment! Kudos! ^_^

      (Though I wonder where exactly you see the 50% success rate of military interventions.)

  6. Yes, there are so many wonderful advantages to being female in Islamic society that it is a mystery why any woman would give them all up.

  7. What makes me laugh is that most of what you said people is not true!! I am Egyptian and I live in Dubai (Muslim country). Here in Dubai we have Muslims as much as Christians!! Non-Muslims are not taxed; Where da hell did you hear that. Woman can drive cars, and not everything is a death penalty.

    Well….you know nothing about Islam! So don’t just shout out stuff that you don’t know. Not because you heard something bad about a muslim then all of them are bad! If I would look at the Iraqi video published by WikiLeaks, I would say that all Americans are murderers and savage people! But they are not!!! Same as homosexuality not because one boy is girly then all gay boys are girly.

    I don’t know about Qatar but in Dubai we don’t live at the medieval!! In Dubai we have the tallest tower in the world, largest mall in the world; We are having the F1 racing cup in Dubai. Our metro trains are computerized they have no drivers, and even more….. Don’t stay all of this because of the oil, no! Abu-dhabi is the country with all the money and oil. Dubai was made from scratch by businesses and stuff.

    I am proud of my religion Islam and it was not rewritten, it is that some people interpreted it wrong. You don’t believe in God thats something else, just respect other people’s believes.

    TheUnknownBoy

    1. I’ve been through the Middle East before, and have relatives who live there.

      Have you got any idea about the plight of gays, non-Muslims and women in the Islamic world? I have ex-Muslim friends who would be punished for saying that they apostocised from Islam, you have very little understanding of what it means to be a “social misfit” in a religious theocracy.

      In Dubai, Article 177 of the Penal Code of Dubai imposes imprisonment of up to 10 years on consensual sodomy. In 2008 two women tourists were given a one-month jail sentence and then deported for engaging in public displays of affection while visiting a beach.

      Under Islamic law, jizya tax is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state’s non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria.

      In Saudi Arabia, women cannot vote or be elected to high political positions. In general, women are not allowed to drive, although it is often tolerated in rural areas. Most scholars and religious authorities have declared it haram.

      Six countries in the world kill people for being gay, all six of those countries operate under Islamic Law.

      I am under no obligation to respect someone’s beliefs if those beliefs infringe on the rights of others. I do not need to respect a religion that violates basic human rights, or commands people to do so (even if I understand that the majority of Muslims are peaceful, this does not make Islam peaceful).

      People such as yourself have a distorted idea of “respect”, you believe it is important to “respect” beliefs that would kill you for being gay. This is at best naive, at worst it showcases your lack of understanding on this issue.

      P.S. Do your research, a judge in Dubai just recently declared that it was acceptable for a husband to beat his wife, with the reasoning that the Qur’an says this is acceptable. I don’t need to respect that.

      Finally, my best friend’s parents moved to Saudi Arabia for business a few years ago. His mum was forced to wear the burqa, she didn’t get to choose and she was not a Muslim. How is that freedom?

      Please use some common sense.

    2. You live in dubai, Americanised-liberal paradise. Visit some of your next door neighbours! They’d just love to have you ’round for a nice stoning, maybe some torture, a couple beatings, mutilation and to top it all off, a nice hanging.

      I’d bet they’d respect your beliefs if you told them to those muslim friends of yours, after all I’m sure they do they same.
      Dubbai is a playground for Oil barons and big businesses, who care little for religion and all that non-sence.

      I think perhaps you are a little naive, or a little sheltered from the facts of things, despite living in the heart of it.

  8. All of what of you said is in Saudi Arabia only. In other Muslim countries, woman can drive, and vote. Everyone is taxed equally!! What human rights are you talking about! Its only that homosexuality is illegal! There are several non-Muslim, non-Arab countries that view homosexuality as illegal.

    When I say respect I mean don’t insult my countries or my religion. View your opinions with out insulting.

    And lol, doesn’t mean that someone declared something is haram, then it is. Read the Quran your self, don’t follow other people.

    How is Islam not peaceful?

    TheUnknownBoy

    1. ‘What human rights are you talking about, it’s only homosexuality that is illegal’.
      did I honestly read that right?
      False Imprisonment is less evil than state sanctioned murder, but a lesser degree of evil doesn’t stop it being evil.

    2. “How is Islam not peaceful?”

      You really are too naive, but if you want a list I can make one. And a very, very recent one to boot.

  9. What? No rigid gender roles?! This is preposterous.

    Stone them to death. The death penalty will certainly make any problem go away permanently; it has worked before with homosexuality, adultery, heresy … Oh, wait …

    Who the hell told them they could choose how to cover their own bodies anyway?! rawr argh :<

  10. Religion, good god y’all, what is it good for, absolutely nothing. …

    oh wait, I think that song starts out as War, but I get the two confused, sometimes they are so similar.

    sorry, now what was the discussion about? Dress code?

  11. Of course here in the good old USA we execute people all the time. Religion is bad all around. Christian or Muslim, it is for the weak minded who cannot think for themselves, and for those in power to stay in power.

  12. I have a question for some of the Muslims in this conversation. Since according to the Koran a man can have up to 4 wives. And since even in Muslim countries the birth rate is still 50 50 between the sexes. What are the left over men supposed to do.

    1. Pederasty can be a solution as long as the boys aren’t to old they aren’t put to death.

      This 4 wives thing was adopted after a battle where the Muslims where almost decimated and the womans don’t have who take care of them. Before that they were monogamists.

    1. This blog is liberal, you’re just out of touch and illiberal. People such as yourself don’t have enough understanding about this issue.

      The liberal Left criticises Chrisitianity and Judaism for beign intolerant, prejudiced, steeped in bigotry. But then they look at the Islamic world where intolerance still exists, where most Muslims do not agree with homosexuality, and all they can say is, “well we’ve got to respect that”.

      I am liberal in the sense that all personal freedoms are important, and I don’t make accommodations for people who have intolerant or barbaric views that infringe on the rights of others.

      You, in fact, are illiberal in the sense that you believe it is acceptable for people to use their religious views to infringe on the freedoms of others.

      If you knew a thing or two about human rights, you’d understand that religion does not hold human rights, human rights only belong to humans.

      You really need to understand this sort of issue if you wish to debate this, I’ve spent years talking to ex-Muslims, many haven’t seen their parents, many got beat up for being gay. Illiberal people such as yourself would expect us to “tolerate” this.

      1. Well I’m a liberal, and I say to hell with their beliefs and respect for them. Why respect something that, by its very nature, wants us dead, and if they had there way would have us executed.

        Being a liberal should mean respecting other peoples rights and beliefs, but ONLY if they respect yours and your right to them, and if they don’t infringe on yours. If they don’t, then they deserve to be ridculed and cast out.

        In cases like this, its clear these people are backwards, that much is fact not opinion, like medicine being better then mystic healers, or cars being better then horses, humans come to a stage where we advance on a matter. Executions for dressing, slightly manly? Or having short hair?

        If there was justice there would be no world cup, but intervention by the UN.

  13. I’m tired of being told that Islam is a “Religion of Peace,” when every day I can read of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and daughters for their family “honor”; of Muslims rioting over some slight offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren’t “believers”; of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning teenage rape victims to death for “adultery”; of Muslims mutilating the genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur’an and Sharia law tells them to.

    If Dubai is less extreme, good for Dubai. The problem is Dubai is virtually alone in its liberality-representing a teeny-tiny percentage of the solar system’s Muslim population. Sorry, but statistically, Dubai doesn’t count.

    It is common knowledge that over 80% of the women and girls in Egypt have been genitally mutilated, and among Muslims, all of the boys and men.

    On November 16, millions of Muslims all over Russia celebrated the religious holiday of Qurban Bayram (the Turkik name of Eid al-Adha), which closes with the ritual sacrifice of a sheep. The animal sacrifices are not done at a religious venue such as a mosque, but instead done on city streets, in minivans, in front of Christian churches, wherever these primitive savages can flaunt this outrageous conduct. What else do you need to know about Islam?

    ISLAM DELENDA EST.

  14. Boyot is colloquially dyke. Dyke is colloquially lesbian. Lesbians freaks the crap out of most of the world. Yeah, lesbians are great – in trashy pornos. In real life the better part of the stereotypical human race would rather not be acquainted with a lesbian.

    Are some of the boyot harassing “their straiter-laced sisters”? Absolutely. But those “straiter-laced sisters” are harassing right back.

    The jump for the death penalty isn’t that surprising nor should it cause so much consternation. Spiders frighten me so I kill them. Are you going to tell me I’m a medieval bastard for squishing arachnids? Probably not. You’ve probably squished an arachnid or two yourself. The reaction of the audience members who voted for the death penalty is about the same. “Ooh, scary, kill it.” Wait a couple centuries and we’ll have a more productive method for dealing with our fears. Maybe.

    In the end the Qatari government chose hospitalization anyway. And if the UAE figures out the gender identity issues they should pass the information on to the rest of the world.

    On a side note, most religions are peaceful. It’s the human factor that makes them un-peaceful.

    1. Hardly, all the Abrahamic religions are institutionally violent, many different types of paganism are violent, even if they are less dogmatic about it, the only actual peaceful religion is Buddhism, and that isn’t an actual ‘religion’ as such anyway.

    2. “lesbians are great – in trashy pornos” / “The jump for the death penalty isn’t that surprising nor should it cause so much consternation. Spiders frighten me so I kill them. Are you going to tell me I’m a medieval bastard for squishing arachnids?”

      That’s supposed to be sarcasm or something, right? Or some cynical critique on other people. You didn’t seriously reduce lesbians to porn and compare executions with swatting spiders? Right?

  15. Arabs angry about something? My god this is shocking! Seriously, when is someone going to take their savage asses out of the dark ages?

    Hell the ancient Arab people were more open minded, infact just as much as the greeks were.

    Maybe they’re just reverting back in time and eventually they’ll become cave men and we can cage them and poke them with sticks?

    Just a thought.

      1. What does his country have to do with it?

        How naive and blisfully unaware could you be to try and delegitimise someone’s efforts at calling to question serious human rights abuses.

        Throwing stones? Christian countries in the past threw stones, but it is Islamic countries today who use their religion to create violence. Almost all wars around the world are between Muslims and non-Muslims, in fact the Qur’an advocates the stoning of Jews.

        Don’t you think you should be careful about trying to defend a religion that is used to create so much violence? You’re German, surely you know just what it means to fight against intolerant belief systems. Mein Kampf, Hitler’s autobiography is a best-seller in Turkey, and anti-Semitism is widespread throughout the Islamic world.

        Muslim schools in London have been found teaching its kids that Jews were monkeys and pigs, and what the best method of killing gays was. Research Saudi-funded schools in England. You do not need to respect something that advocates these sorts of things, not until Islam modernizes itself like Christianity has been doing.

        1. Yep, I know what it means to fight against intolerance. (And sadly my German family history is full of intolerance worthy of opposition.) And I agree that islamic homophobia, anti-semitism, male chauvinism, mysogyny, boastfulness, irrationality and intolerance are often despicable and always annoying.

          But if I look at modern mass murder perpetrated by America in the name of democracy and freedom, or the insidious corruption spread by the cleptocracy of Italy, the shameless covering up of crimes by the Vatican, or at the way even Sweden behaves in the Assange affair, I think the West is far from a position to point the finger at Islam.

          And from the way he argues, I doubt that ProxyMan (and quite a lot of other brave defenders of the West) is exactly a force for tolerance and freedom in the world.

          It is not only about what you are against. It is also about what you stand for. Wouldn’t you agree?

  16. Well I don’t really know what are talking about, but I never see what you are talking about in Egypt nor in Dubai.

    :( I swear to god you don’t know Islam very well. You just got the wrong idea. Arabs are not going back in time!! Stop these insults. Whats wrong with all of you! We are here to discuss stuff and not insult like animals. I am Egyptian, Muslim, and Gay. and proud. There stuff here you don’t have in your countries. All you hear about is Taliban killing I don’t know who. Its all news and scam.

    If I was to use your point of view. Then all Americans are murderers!! Because there was this leaked video from WikiLeaks showing the American army shooting innocent people in Iraq, from an Apache Helicopter. It was just like a video game!

    Now UK wants to block porn, why don’t you say that is a violation of human rights!!

    All of you are innocent people who don’t do anything wrong :D I love you all hahaha.

    TheUnknownBoy

    1. Studies found that support for the acceptance of homosexuality in most Islamic countries is less than 10 percent. In Europe, it is over 75% in most countries.

      Homophobia is rife in the Muslim community, there’s already been many reports of Muslim youth going around beating gay people up in Amsterdam and London.

      I know Islam well enough, having dealt with ex-Muslims and Muslim friends and relatives, and living in a Muslim country (Indonesia).

      It’s not insults, it’s criticising the terrible human rights abuses in Islam. Open your eyes, people such as yourself always try to silent any criticism of Islam because you say that it hurts your feelings, suck it up, this is the real world and people will criticise human rights abuses.

      Also , I know Dubai is modern. Lots of buildings, a nightlife that only non-Muslims can enjoy, but it still has terrible human rights records. The slave-labour wages of people from Pakistan, the fact a recent judge said men could beat their wives, the fact that being gay is still a punishable crime. Do you know anything about your own country? Stop with the propaganda and do the facts.

      Finally, yes, it does happen in Dubai. Under Sharia Law in Dubai, you are a criminal for being gay. Don’t hide it, and don’t ignore the facts. It’s a shame you know nothing about your own country.

      Blocking porn, though stupid and despicable, is not the same as locking someone in jail or killing someone for being gay. It is not the same as telling a woman she can’t dress freely because she’s a woman.

      You should stick to debating things you know, you know nothing about this.

  17. Christ said ‘my Kingdom is not of this world’, so any institutionalised power hierarchy in this world is merely touting heretical hogshit. Islam teaches the same heretical stuff as most worldly ideologies, viz: Jesus Christ is not God & this alone puts most meatheads on a par. Christ also said ‘I say ye are gods’ (theoi in Gk & elohim in Hb), so if ya ain’t reached this superlative & ecstatic state thru deification/transfiguration/metanoia, then y’re all in the same boat, gay or straight. homosexuality is as limited as heterosexuality in that sex thus relates to one gender, whereas ideally ya should be a polymorphous perverse god and/or goddess like me. shucks, kids, it’s easy if ya know how.

    Christ’s Kingdom is an extra-dimension gained access by metamorphosis, so if ya just happen to be slurping an exquisitely beautiful youth on entry then absolute delight follows as a starter & this is because Christ Almighty grants a pure heart its most beautiful desires, whereas ah strongly suspect most secular meatheads don’t get a look in when it comes to true love, gay or straight. a god and/or goddess is all genders & none as the world is gone beyond. it’s natural to be divine & profoundly unnatural not to be, so gay or straight if ya ain’t up thar where the light breaks y’re missing out totally. that ancient wise adage ‘seek ye first the Kingdom of God’ is absolutely right especially when it says ‘and all things will be added to ya’ – you bet & they’re gorgeous & kissable & full of duckie yum-yum cuddles – mortals, on the other hand, are all of ya fkked up, mutant, subhuman & most of ya ain’t even taken it in that Allah became incarnate as a Jew to become the first Christian.

    Individuals are the imago Dei split & particularised, splintered & fallen, whereas all religions except Islam teach androgynous gods at their origin. male & female made He him was normal before being cast into imperfection, so now mortals run around as murderous mutations castigating & killing other parts of themselves – but, eh, enuff as ah’ve gotta go & do mah art thing. stay gentle even tho y’re beset with madness & confusion.

  18. Where is the rule that says, “Just because someone believes in something, you have to respect that belief”?

    Did I miss something? Someone can come up with an absolute crazy notion:

    “I don’t like black people. Black people are the work of the devil.”

    And you say, hey guy, that’s a crazy notion, pipe down with that racism, this is 2010!

    But the minute someone says, “Hey this is my faith, this is what I believe in” everyone has to back off and give that person some respect?

    I don’t think so. Wake the fuck up people. Just because someone claims they “Believe” in something or has a “faith” doesnt make those ideals off limits for criticism. I imagine religious nuts everywhere don’t want their beliefs called into question if they don’t make sense, or pass the reason test. That doesn’t mean I don’t have the right to do exactly that.

    Stupidity and bigotry is still anathema even if you cloak them in “faith”. You don’t get a free pass on a screwed up ideal just because you ‘believe’ in it. Sure, you have the right to believe in whatever you want to believe, and I have the right to call it dumb.

    You can’t hide ignorance and hatred behind ‘faith’ and think you’re going to get away with it just because you cry about people attacking your ‘beliefs’.

    Give me a break.

    1. Exactly, faith has a legitimate power when it can be empirically proven, as it never has been, it is a personal superstition and should have no power beyond your own home. Like, i don’t care if you call black people ‘coons’ in your own home, but do it in front of me or my friends and you’ll take your face home in your hat.

    2. Agreed completely.

      It’s good to see (more) rational, forward-thinking people here who tell it how it is. People who aren’t afraid to be politically incorrect by respecting people’s hideous or violent beliefs, people who understand that human rights belong to humans and not religion.

  19. I asked what the left over men where supposed to do when polygamy is allowed. The reply was pederasty is allowed. The definition of which is sex between older men and adolescent males. And as long as they are not two old the death penalty does not apply. Would someone like to explain the reasoning behind this. Two full grown men is a sin. Old man and boy perfectly acceptable?

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