Homophobia Kills
It is hardly surprising: If you keep refusing a minority basic rights, kids will grow up under the impression that members of said minority are somehow worth less than “normal” people, that it is ok to look down on them, to bully them. Realising this also means realising that you can’t just blame the bullies and their parents but that the government has the responsibility to make sure minorities have exactly the same rights as everyone else. The Unites States are further away from ensuring this than most other Western civilisations and the consequences are coming to light recently:
- New Jersey: Gay student secretly taped having sex kills himself
- Texas: 13-Year-Old shoots himself in the head over anti-gay bullying
- California: Gay 13-Year-Old hangs self after reported bullying
- Indiana: Teen’s suicide thought to be result of anti-gay bullying

More at the Classically Liberal Blog here, here & here.




about 2 years ago
It’s an incredibly depressing topic, but it needed to be said. Thank you!
about 2 years ago
I was so saddened to read the recent spate of stories about bullying gays leading to suicide. As someone who was bullied as a boy, I can understand some the despair and pain these young people must have felt. However, I’m not sure that anti-bullying laws will do much to stop this hate. You can’t legislate love or hate. We must work to guarantee civil rights for gays and other minorities but there also needs to be a change in the way parents talk and act around their kids. As the song in “South Pacific” notes, “You have to be carefully taught.”
about 2 years ago
Please help and pass this along to any sites that are GLBT friendly and or if you are or if know someone that is GLBT and is feeling depressed. Don’t let the F*#&ing bullies win.
http://www.youtube.com/user/itgetsbetterproject
about 2 years ago
When will people learn that you cannot and should not legislate behavior? Letting the Government ‘handle’ the problems of society by making them illegal does not work. Education is a start but to really make an effect we have to change our opinions at home, in church, at temple and in school. Children learn through observation of their parents. Until the parents change their nasty, hateful attitudes and ideals, nothing will change.
This is such a sad thing for a child to kill themselves over. Bullying is the outward symptom but it is the perceived social negativity and hatred where the child feels it must be them who are flawed so badly that there is no other answer when faced with violence than to die. It tears me up. I went through this crap as did my son. I considered suicide quite often. It makes me want to thrash the miserable bastards that spread this kind of hate.
Sorry… this is a sore subject. Thank you Josh. It does need to be spotlighted.
about 2 years ago
Surely the whole point that Josh is making here is that it is legislation that is causing some of the problem.
Heterosexual couples have legislation granting them special rights and privileges if they marry. Those are denied to gay couples reinforcing the notion of their diminished value to society.
Gays are not knowingly allowed in the US armed forces reinforcing a host of values centred around ‘to pansy to be real men’.
That said, I disagree too with the premise that you cannot legislate behaviour. Race discrimination legislation in the UK (and I think a lot of Western Europe) has made a terrific difference. It helps prevent those ‘nasty hateful attitudes’ of parents going unchallenged by children who can see when they have the law and the representatives of society on their side.
In the UK repealing laws that outlawed homosexuality had a major effect on the public perception, and allowed gay people the chance to be themselves and prove to others that it really doesn’t matter a jot.
Finally at a more basic level, knowing that severe penalties are available against crimes of hate does act as a deterrent, at least to some people, and the more people who are deterred, the better.
about 2 years ago
I understand your point, Daniel. In Southeast Asia there are laws against littering that are Draconian… whipping and prison time. And yes, they work.
That is not the kind of society I want to live in. People should be able to police themselves.
about 2 years ago
I pretty much agree with everything you posted. However, those of us effecting change are too few in numbers. Everybody empathetic talks a good line of shit, but very few actually get down to the nitty gritty of it all..
For yrs I sat on the sidelines figuring that gays would eventually be recognized as real people with real lives. But sitting on the sidelines is just watching your life go by, with the wasted potential of actually doing something about equal rights.
Generally, I’m against marriage of any kind….because the government got into the business of it and it makes careers for lawyers when there’s divorce etc. But…….I have realized that it’s a HUGE deal with LGBT people, because it’s the virtual Holy Grail to getting equal rights….the same as everyone else, not ‘special rights’.
So, I work hard with kids and through PFLAG I work to make adults aware of gay rights and the lack therein. But I’m spread out to thinly and not nearly as effective as I could be if I could just concentrated on one specific area-hence the dilemma.
I think there are two basic fronts right now in LGBT rights that are potentially effective;
1) We work to get LGBTQI representation in the school at an earlier age and in the textbooks. Jack & Jill et al and all their hetero adventures just indemnifies marriage and the heterosexual union as ‘the ideal’. And hell yeah, it marginalizes everyone else not in that model.
2) We push very hard to get gay marriages legal in as many states as we can. The Feds in their infinite wisdom will come on-board at a point way before the states do.
These two powerhouse lawyers of fame & notoriety, are getting ready to prove that the illegality of gay marriage is unConstitutional. If they can do it great, but if they fail on the Supreme Court level, it will set back gay rights probably ten yrs or more.
about 2 years ago
You can legislate against discrimination, but you can’t legislate against prejudice. Time, acceptance & education eventually removes prejudice for one ‘group’, but invariably, another group is chosen and demonized.
In the human situation, it’s what we do……..
about 2 years ago
I share your anger but disagree that you cannot and should not legislate behavior. Virtually all laws address behavior, from stealing to violence. When it comes to human rights the law should be one step ahead of community attitudes. In the US it wasn’t until the Civil Rights Act was passed that racial attitudes began to seriously change. Now leaders are pilloried if they utter a racial slur. That’s not yet the case for slurs against gays. That won’t change until gays gain equal rights under the law. As for bullying, this should be against the law because it involves inflicting emotional violence on another person much as does sexual harassment which is already against the law, a law that has been quite effective in stopping sexual harassment in the workplace.
about 2 years ago
The original definition of the word “homophobia” described “fear of sameness”, or even more accurately, “fear of self”. This, IMHO, is a much more nuanced point than merely defining it to mean “fear of homosexuals”.
about 2 years ago
Actually it’s come to mean an irrational fear and hate of homosexuals. I don’t think it matters much the origin, but that we universally understand how the word is used or misused.
about 2 years ago
I know we in USA have so many suicides because of gay bashing, bullying and homophobia, but I’m wondering (factually) how many pre-teens, young teens, teens or others commit suicide for the same reasons in Europe, Asia, C. & S. Americas, or Australia?
about 2 years ago
Without doubt quite a few do in other countries of course.
That said, it’s basically only the US that has this constant “We are the example for the world” mentality that is shoved in everyone’s face ad nauseum. Well if they want to push that, then there’s a price to pay … BE A GOOD EXAMPLE and don’t complain when the obvious contradictions are pointed out.
about 2 years ago
Trust me, the concept that “America is supposed to be the example of the world” is shoved in *our* faces just as much.
about 2 years ago
How about a few examples of what you are so defiantly claiming? (Please don’t include any of the asinine bigotry and hypocrisy of G.W. Bush — intelligently, we already know he is a complete idiot) You sound more hateful of us for just being Americans.
about 2 years ago
Pretty sad, and all examples are USA. It seems this is the worst country in the world when it comes to accepting people for who they are
about 2 years ago
Uhm, not really, prophet123–check out places like Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea. Imagine being a woman in some of these countries. In Aghanistan, a woman cannot ever SHOW HER FACE IN PUBLIC (has to basically wear a “sheet” to cover herself from head to toe). A woman CANNOT GO OUTSIDE of the house except in the company of a man who is a relative or her husband. In Saudi Arabia, women are not a allowed to drive. Regarding homosexuality, In the U.S., except in a few locations, they won’t let gays get “married”, but they will allow “civil unions.” You can BE gay, and you CAN form a loving relationship with a same-sex partner.
However in the Middle East, they will flog you with hundreds of lashes for simply having sex with a same sex partner, and then they will hang you, or crush you under a falling wall, or in some other way KILL YOU. In the US they don’t send you to the electric chair or the gas chamber for being gay–remember that. The United States may be behind some of Europe when it comes to social issues, but that’s just about it. Read about what it is like to be gay in MOST of the rest of the world and you will be so thankful you live in the United States.
about 2 years ago
Homophobia, on this site, is a great sin. But ageism (see “TheJoeFrom1993″) is a correspondingly great virtue.
Choose your prejudice, gentlemen…
about 2 years ago
Well said. Very well said.
about 2 years ago
Boys can’t help being beautiful and irreverent any more than old men can help being old. I suggest some sort of ‘bridge’ or happier medium.
about 2 years ago
Boys in many other countries don’t have the same fear of older males that is seen in the US. I was talking to a 21 guy the other day and he thinks most guys his age are just stupid for their behavior towards older men.
about 2 years ago
There are a fair amount of younger dudes that feel this way. My feeling is that if you treat everybody as an equal, things usually work out. Also, if you’re older, don’t keep reminding someone younger of that or beat them over the head with it. They know that someone older has much experience and wisdom….if they want advice or tidbits of wisdom, they will ask for it in their own ways.
about 2 years ago
I could kiss you for that, FuManchu! I actually worry a lot about “TheJoeFrom1993″ with all his “pretty pretty boy” pictures lining his walls (he sounded like the Wicked Witch from “The Wizard of Oz”: “Now, my PRETTY!”). Even when I was one myself, I wasn’t obsessed like that as if I were a teenage girl (you know what–not one poster of David Cassidy or Luke Halpin! Of course, my parents would have killed me…or sent me to military school or something. Hmm, that might not have been so bad!). I predict “TheJoeFrom1993″ will continue to have pictures of “pretty pretty boys” on his walls even when he is a middle-aged adult. People see in others what is in their own hearts.
about 2 years ago
When will people wake up. If you hate gays so much……STOP HAVING CHILDREN..THAT will solve the problem. I didnt come out of the closet untill I was in my mid 20s because I saw what others were going through. I may not like people who wear orange pants, but I dont go around harraising them or beating them up. It is deplorable that this is still happening as often as it does.
On a personal note, the last a/hole that taunted me calling me FAGGOT probably thought twice while in the hospital having his jaw wired shut.
about 2 years ago
Virgocub–if the word “Faggot” even approaches his tongue, he will KEEP that jaw shut. I am guessing that he just learned that gays are NOT the easy pickings he thought they were.
about 2 years ago
For teens reading Milkboys who are experiencing the hate first-hand, I encourage you to check out the YouTube page that traveleryvr posted. For those who want to talk, at least here in the United States,m there is the Trevor Project at http://thetrevorproject.org which staffs a 24 hour hotline for GBLT teens facing rejection, depression or contemplating suicide. (I have no connection except as a contributor when I can spare it). There is help out there *please* use it. So many of us suffered the same kinds of pain and rejection: we urge you to hang on there and resolve to live long enough to overcome the hate of schoolmates.
For the adults here: consider donating to Trevor or another organization making a difference. We’ve made it: let’s help our next generation join us.
about 2 years ago
It’s not just the government. It’s bigots like Andrew Shirvell (http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2010/09/rat-comes-out-of-his-hole.html) and the Westboro Baptist Church. WHen they preach hate, they teach children that it is OK to hurt others because they are different from you.
Jay
about 2 years ago
Yes, you are correct. I just viewed that video and read the article around it. He is definitely a nutcase. And, as usual with idiots like that, he finally admitted to the reason he thinks this way — his religion. For all this hate of homosexuals, it always goes back to either their or their family’s religion and how they have been preached to. They always try to say it’s about “morals,” but the fact is that it’s always religion that judge these “morals.” I hope this idiot loses his job very soon.
about 2 years ago
Minute 6:44 = Epic argumentum ad silentio + ignorantiam.
My head just exploded.
about 2 years ago
On a different note: I’m an American in California; and I’m not always proud of what other American s do. I’ve also lived in Germany and in France, so my view is not totally ignorant of other cultures.
To prophet, who apparently lives in the US and who thinks it is the ‘worst country in the world’, let me say two things: 1) Here in the US you hear about such outrages; and 2) there are other cultures where penalty for suspected gay behavior is grounds for execution. And those places think they have no gay citizens. We’re far from perfect; but spend some time traveling the world and you’ll find it could be much worse. we will persevere: contrary to the anti-gay sound bytes you hear, no less than the Wall Street Journal says that over 60% of Americans believe that gays should have equal rights as straights with respect to marriage and protection under the law. We’ll be batter..
about 2 years ago
I fucking <3 your face right not.
about 2 years ago
I guess I will never understand this.
How can somebody bully people to that point and where were the adults/institutions in charge of handling this situations?
When I was in high school I took classes with this transgender boy, he openly wanted us to refer to him as “her” and stuff but my classmates did never call him names, even less bullied him (as far as I know). Something similar happened when they knew I was an atheist… I mean, we fought with each but not because of the sexual orientation/beliefs and certainly not to the point of driving someone to commit suicide.
about 2 years ago
“The Unites States are further away from ensuring this than most other Western civilisations and the consequences are coming to light recently”
Which is funny considering how much the majourity of the world is following the states down their pruddish conservative ways
about 2 years ago
Regardless if it is religion, or politics, it seems like there is always a need to put down or demoralize others to show that your better. This is one of those things about human nature that disappoints me.
It seems however, there are those that finally realize that being gay is not evil or something to kill yourself over, governments wont rise and fall and god wont destroy us because of one man, reaching out and loving another.
However, human nature being what it is, the sights are targeted on another group that is different and thus we are lead to believe that they are the reason for all the problems in the world. The cycle just seems to continue.
anyway that’s my two cents worth, (which probably isn’t worth the price of the copper) :p
about 2 years ago
Throughout history, majority ‘groups’ have always ridden on the downtrodden backs of minority and ineffectual groups. Pick a ‘group’ that can’t fight back demonstrably, demonize them and gain all the power you need to conquer & rule.
Conservatives and religious zealots have being doing this with homosexuals in the US for decades. When The Chimp was reelected to a second term, I thought I would lose my mind. Especially when the two clear issue in his campaign were gay marriages and abortion rights. 51% of the popular vote showed us that gay marriages and abortions were ‘wrong’. If 60%+ polled now feel gay marriages are OK, then I guess we’ve made ‘some’ progress, however marginal.
about 2 years ago
I wonder why so many people start to “talk” only after an incident like this happens. People talk and talk and talk and never actually do anything to fix the apparent problem. I’ve been in the same situation as many of the boys in this article, for more than 10 years i have endured so much more and i am still alive. I neither have a strong will nor do i have a reason to live and yet still i continue to do so in the hope that all my suffering will accumulate into something good in my future (you know karma and stuff like that, i can tell you for certain that i didn’t deserve any of the shit life brought me). Funny thing in my situation is that i haven’t actually “come out” and people were still mean to me. Anyway i’m wondering how weak willed these boys must have been, what did their parent teach them, what did society teach them to push them so much that they would take their own life. I just don’t understand it, how can some people throw their life so easily… and how can the media have the nerve to report on these situations as tragedies, they are no tragedies, they are a simple result of poor parenting, we see this all the time but it comes to light only when someone decides to take their own life. It’s stupid. I’m beyond word honestly…
about 2 years ago
Yet…something has kept you going; whether it’s the thought of something in the future becoming better or a LT relationship with someone you love/adore…something other than the mechanics of day-to-day living is keeping you going.
There is so much out there to see and do in this world that makes our existence satisfying. Maybe you should consider working with some organizations that are striving to make things better for LGBTQI folks.
These boys who committed suicide weren’t necessarily “weak’, they just didn’t know all the options left open to them. Without the proper guidance, especially by someone who has survived a similar attempt, they just got lost in their perceived choices. The Trevor Hotline works tirelessly to help young people make choices other than suicide and there are many other sources of help. Sometimes though, when some are paralyzed with hopelessness, they don’t seek the help that’s out there.
Like Boimatt says below, challenge yourself to do something about this loss of human potential and love.
about 2 years ago
Where were the “child protectors” then?
about 2 years ago
Probably in some church chanting and singing after hearing their idiotic preacher vowing everyone of his congregation to “kill the faggots.”
about 2 years ago
Hate is hate. There has always been a group in charge that tries to single out some group to be hated. Think. women.. blacks, my family went through a time when the Irish were considered ‘sub-human’.
The only way to fight such ignorance is education and experience. You cannot hate your black neighbor once you get to know them, similarly, since gays have been in the closet, it has been difficult to put a face on a gay person, it’s easier to hate them. Now that more of us are out, families and friends and neighbors realize we are more like them that different.
Sadly we have to legislate behaviour, we always have had to, and including orientation and related issues will go a long way in that direction.
I urge every one here, young to old to volunteer, donate, spend time with any organization that helps ease issues over hate, coming out, etc. It will open your eyes, and make their lives better.
Last thought:
Hate divides and because of that it will never prevail. Hate is a destructive force that only generates discontent. Love however unifies. Once we get to a point in our hearts where we don’t look for differences in people, we realize that its the minor differences that bring diversity, and strength.
I beg any milkie here, to contact somebody, including me if they feel suicidal. It is not the answer.
about 2 years ago
i watched prayers for bobby yesterday, i don’t usually cry in movies but i cried for the last half of it, it was so sad.. i think you should all watch it.
about 2 years ago
Great movie….crying just shows you have heart. Continue to celebrate life.;-)
about 2 years ago
Yes, Prayers For Bobby is a very good movie with great actors, not the least Ryan Kelley, who portrayed “Bobby.” He shows emotion very well. His “debut” was excellent in the 2 episodes of Smallville (he was between 12-14 yo). Because of his good acting, I watch it every so often and always brings tears to my eyes.
Because I’m a realist, most “Hollywood endings” that try to make everything “all well again,” sometimes just don’t sit well with me because they throw out the very “moral” they initially tried to portray (hopefully). Unfortunately, most parents who are as ‘fundamentally religious’ as Sigourney Weaver initially started out to be, simply do not “convert themselves” in favor of the hurt minority and empathy. But, because of the obvious power the religious right has over TV and movies, they had to “give in” and make the religious “nice” again. In real life, most nutcase religious parents would never “see the light” and still hate the very ground their gay son/daughter walks on (and maybe themselves, for “creating this gay monster”). And the actor who portrayed his brother was rather weak in the loving/helping of his brother department also (written that way).
about 2 years ago
Penboy–you are so right about Ryan Kelley, he is an excellent actor (did you also see him in “Mean Creek”? I think you will really like that movie; he’s not the lead; he plays a character who is harassed because he has a gay father. I also loved him in “The Dust Factory” in which he plays a boy who is deaf. He is simply beautiful.)
“Prayers For Bobby” did not have a “Hollywood” or otherwise artificial ending, though, because the story is a true story, adapted from the book written by Bobby’s mother who DID have this life-changing revelation (and she was a MORMON, who seem to be the hardest to change). So there really is hope, which why that movie made me cry (but I cried everywhere in it!). I love that scene when she goes over to hug the young guy she sees there at the parade who reminded her of Bobby. Great movie.
about 2 years ago
We all talked about it about a year ago when it came out and a lot of people were crying. I think the posts are on the board.
about 2 years ago
Terrible
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11446034
about 2 years ago
Incredible waste of a beautiful life.:-( 5 yrs in prison seems light. They won’t get that unfortunately, especially if they have no priors. You’d think that by college age, these issues are put behind us, but obviously not.
about 2 years ago
I was the bully who picked on the fem boys way back when I was in school – mercilessly…and 30 years later I still am haunted by the hatred my fear of myself expressed. It was and it is psychology 101. Those most unhappy within themselves will often strike out at those who remind them unconsciously of the parts of themselves that they hate. Tornmentor and tormented alike do live with the scars – it’s just that one of them is more able to be honest about it.
What is really sad about the three who committed suicide is most of us do realise that they are just the visible tip of a very big iceberg…they are the ones we heard about.
I am, however, witness to how far in a short period of time we have come. Thirty years ago we would not even know these boys had existed, let alone hear of their plights SYMPATHETICALLY from the mass media…there is hope, and there is progress. Slowly, albeit, and yet our ancestral GLBT’s never even had that.
As Bruce Cockburn wrote and sang…keep kicking at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.
~Yokimi in Maine USA
about 2 years ago
I mentioned the Trevor project yesterday; they have me on their mailing list because when I can I’ve been giving them donations when I can. Today they sent out email; and it turns out they can accept $5 donations by texting them.
“Text TREVOR to 85944 to make a $5 donation”
I know we’re all stretched pretty thin; but I think they do a pretty good job both supporting the kids who need it AND publicizing the problem in mainstream media and politics. I am not affiliated with them, I promise; but I decided I can afford an extra $5 on my cell phone bill – hell, I probably won’t even notice it. But every penny we can give provides help that our young friends need. if you can do it just once, do it now.
about 2 years ago
Is so depressing lately. It seems like every other day I’m hearing about another gay suicide. I don’t know what the statistics were before, but in the last few weeks, it just seems like things have gone really down hill. I can’t stand it much longer.
about 2 years ago
Suicide in LGBTQI youth runs about a constant 17%. It hasn’t spiked, these are media news stories. As I said below, they cycle into ‘cluster’ news stories every so often. There are 75 million young people under 18 in America and so if theses stories still move us, then that means it’s not a common occurrence.
Don’t be depressed about it, but DO care. Care enough to volunteer or do something-that way you won’t feel so powerless. Your last sentence worries me…..?
about 2 years ago
Don’t worry guys, I’m not suicidal, lol (just violent … kidding … a little). I didn’t mean to sound so hopeless. That’s good to know, in some morbid way, that the it hasn’t really changed, but what would be better is if gay kids weren’t bullied in the first place.
about 2 years ago
Good to see your post. I guess you know you have support on this site. If need be, make use of it. “Just violent…kidding..a little.” That anger needs an outlet. It can be directed at yourself or others. Best to put your thoughts and feelings into words with someone you trust rather than act it out in your behavior. You are not alone. Take care.
about 2 years ago
I fully agree with Real 1. Your last sentence bothers me too. My email is on my facebook page if you want to chat. I hope I’m not breaking a rule here Josh.
about 2 years ago
Don’t worry, we only have a rule about giving away other people’s data so you’re fine.
about 2 years ago
I saw the story about the NJ boy who jumped from the GW Bridge and it just made me sick!!!!
about 2 years ago
The New Jersey student killed himself because someone exposed his sexuality to the public against his will. Milkboys regularly features depictions of gay teens, and while those videos or pictures were of course posted to the internet by the boys themselves, I think you should really consider the effect of your blog. You expose teenagers to a big audience without their consent. A good example is this video, http://blog.milkboys.org/article/hardware-store/ , milkboys is seems to be one the only places on the internet where you can still find it. What if one of the boys regret it? What if it leads to bullying?
about 2 years ago
Uhhhh….the boys posted the video on youtube which can be seen by the WORLD. If they take offense at having it linked through Milkboys, all they need to do is ask for the link dropped. There was a recent example of this here where the link was dropped….
The two boys in the vid are the sublime expression of two friends who love each other. They use the irreverence of their youth to tease the world with homoerotic poses, fun & silliness. I have a feeling they knew exactly what they were doing.;-)
about 2 years ago
this is so sad… they are so young, and maybe just needed a friend to hug them tight and say it is gonna be ok. I want do do something so no other boys will kill themselves because of homophobia =(
about 2 years ago
Josh,
I really wish you would post more positive news than negative news.
I know you post both, but generally more negative.
about 2 years ago
I don’t want to speak for Josh, but I would guess his intent it to ‘rattle the tree’ so that we all just don’t come here for homoerotic images. Unfortunately, there is a lot of responsibility in being LBGTQI and we have to tow the line a lot harder than most to get the same rights & privileges that heteros take for granted.
The negative news is suppose to rally your sense of outrage and to make you want to DO something….however small it might seem to you.
The news media runs to cycles….if teen suicide is high for a particular week and it can be tied to bullying and/or homophobia, then they run ‘cluster’ stories of it until something else comes along. Suicide rates for LGBTQI teens runs about 17%, same as Native Americans. Both tragic, both preventable and that’s the point-preventable.
about 2 years ago
Being tolerant is an evidence for you (and me, evidently), because you are concerned by the difference.
But, the problem is that most teenagers are not. They are, like 90 % of the population, heterosexual, and don’t have homosexual people in their circle.
To my mind, you can’t be tolerant naturally. This is where education is necessary.
I may be pessimistic, and it is kinda sad to say it on this article, but I think this is the reality.
about 2 years ago
@Rm951:
“They are, like 90 % of the population, heterosexual”
I don’t believe that 90% of the population is heterosexual. I believe it to be at no more than about 80%, possibly less. When I was growing up, I remember the statisticians saying the homosexual population was around 2%, then a few years later, it crept to 3%. Then about 10 years after that, I read that it was closer to 6%. And now (as you tried to point out because of some recent “research”) it’s around 10%. NONE OF US WILL EVER KNOW FOR SURE, as how many (in reality) would ever “come out” just for some “consensus?” VERY FEW. Add to that, the fear of anyone admitting being anywhere near a homosexual in most of the world (middle east, particularly) and we will never really have a true count/percentage of homosexuals. But since WWII, after some have started doing this “research,” it has steadily grown to be a much higher percentage (notwithstanding all the various groups that desperately try to keep that census/percentage as low as they can: religions, governments, etc). Since the last 20 years, with the considerably more openness about this subject, I think that the homosexual population census is considerably more than any 10-15%. And the fact that NATURALLY it is the most “organic” method of birth control, I would place homosexuals in the population at least 20%, possibly more. And the final variation to this “equation” is the fact that there are “varying degrees” of homosexuality (bisexuals, etc).
As to: “don’t have homosexual people in their circle.”
That is just pure bullshit. What you should say is that most heterosexuals simply don’t/can’t know who in their “circle” may be, or are homosexual. For all their “intelligence,” heterosexuals really have no sense of any “gaydar” even when it’s shoved in their face. If most of them aren’t notified of it via the evening news, they’re generally totally clueless.
I have to laugh every time I see, hear or read about some straight military personnel stating that “I don’t want to see” or “I don’t want to know” or “I’m offended” to be bunking, rooming or showering anywhere close to some homosexual (and we all know their colorful words for us). REALITY: You already ARE bunking, rooming and showering with more gays that you would care to know about! They keep using these stupid “conclusions” as one of their prime reasons for denying gays to be open in any of our Military. When I was in the Military for 4 years, NONE of my peers ever knew I was gay and I showered a lot with them (and many times planned it that way!) The ONLY peers that ever knew about me was the 3 that I TOLD. And all 3 didn’t give a damn.
about 2 years ago
I have trouble believing the 90% heterosexual arguement that seems to be popular. I am bisexual and I suspect there are a lot of us but there seems to be some difficulty defining a bisexual.
about 2 years ago
You are right. When i said “don’t have homosexual people in their circle.”, i should have said “don’t know if they have homosexual people in their circle”.
But it changes nothing. If all their homosexual friends don’t tell them they are gay, they can’t understand that there are lots of people who are gay. They can’t know what the reality is. They can’t know that gay people can also be totally “normal” people, people who they mix with everyday, and not only the “weird” and “pervert” queers they show us on TV.
about 2 years ago
“But it changes nothing. If all their homosexual friends don’t tell them they are gay, they can’t understand that there are lots of people who are gay. They can’t know what the reality is. They can’t know that gay people can also be totally “normal” people, people who they mix with everyday, and not only the “weird” and “pervert” queers they show us on TV.”
That’s why there’s a new move afoot for those of us who are LGBTQI to ‘OWN WHO YOU ARE’. Closets don’t accomplish anything but faux privacy and anonymity. The general population of heterosexuals can never fully accept us LBGTQI people if they can’t see us as their everyday peers.
However, I’m not suggesting that boys (still at home and dependent on parents), out themselves to the obvious; homophobic parents that are likely to throw them out in the street, or beat them for being gay. In that situation though, it’s a good time to start building ‘family’ of your own for future’s sake.
about 2 years ago
RE: “those of us who are LGBTQI to ‘OWN WHO YOU ARE’.” [AND] “Closets don’t accomplish anything but faux privacy and anonymity.” [AND] “general population of heterosexuals can never fully accept us … if they can’t see us as their everyday peers.”
All 3 READ very well. But the REALITY is somewhere in the middle (of Rm951 and you). The sad fact of whether gays determined to be “recognized as normal” is quite simply dependent on their families, friends, societies, governments and the worst factor of all: their society’s predominate RELIGION.
While it’s nice that you advise minor boys (and girls I hope, too) that if it isn’t good for them, to just keep their gayness to themselves. That’s good advice for them, but what about College students living away from their families or even just off-campus (not to mention those ON-campus) that must continue their education (quite probably paid by their parents) in a school that doesn’t have any “good” gay circles they can discuss things with? And what about the young person who has to keep his/her job just to pay the necessities of life — rent, food, clothing, etc — you want them to stand outside their cubicles and announce to everyone that they’re gay and to recognize them for who they are? And what about the young, up and coming politician (to be) volunteering at some rally or campaign for a politician that doesn’t like gays, but who is still better than the other party’s? Or the over-25 yr old who has been “hounded” by his family, friends, (and worst of all, his church) why he hasn’t married yet? And what about the military person who has, at the very least [in America], has to deal with “don’t ask, don’t tell,” but still wants to stay in the military for possibly his chosen carreer and has already proven he is doing his job as well as any other straight person?
These are just a tiny fraction of the THOUSANDS, ney, MILLIONS of reasons that many gays simply can’t just come running out of their closets with lavendar capes and pink sword and gun handles just because they want everyone else to “fully accept them.” Again, they read well, but you can’t just wish so many gays to come out when there are so many REAL OBSTACLES they must deal with on a DAILY basis. I only WISH it could be as you stated (like when I was in the Military and after I found out they opened all my mail addressed to [my boy-]friend when I was in Vietnam).
about 2 years ago
Wow….OK, in COLLEGE you can start a gay group if there isn’t one. It’s the perfect place to come ‘out’ and start living the life you were meant to. That’s exactly what happens most of the time, considering that many gays just quietly shuffle through HS and then explode on college campus. Except for religious based colleges, most are open to gay groups of some kind. I helped form a couple of gay men’s groups on campuses.
I’m not even going to touch your political argument….quite naturally you support the candidates that will support gay rights…unless YOU think that one thing is no big deal, because you like the ‘rest’ of their campaign rhetoric.
There have been many military men & women that came out and were discharged. In their particular stance, they chose not to live a lie. They OWN WHO THEY ARE…..real role models for the rest of us. And your 25yr old+ who is still in the closet….I say for what gain? What does he have to lose? People who one day love him and the next day condemn him for coming out? I’d say that’s a pretty good litmus test for who really loves you-family included. Families and loved ones are supposed to let you grow, find happiness and become fulfilled….how is that possible if you hide such a big part of yourself?
And your last paragraph is not even worth commenting on. I’ve been hammering in here for quite sometime about coming out as normal everyday people-not the lavender, cape-flying stereotypes you envision. You missed my point entirely as per usual….if ALL of us OWN WHO WE ARE, then things will normalize, it will be no big deal and we can go on with our lives unmolested.
Your moderate stance does nothing but reinforce the notion that the closet is a viable alternative. There is no easy road to this, just like there was no easy road for African Americans to get full rights.
about 2 years ago
I support taking school districts which fail to protect their students to court and filing multi-million dollar lawsuits. There have been a few successful lawsuits already but apparently not enough of them to put every school district on notice that bullying is unacceptable and will cost them dearly. Are there any legal counsel type organizations besides the American Civil Liberties Union working on these sorts of cases? I’d like to know so I can support them.
about 2 years ago
But isn’t it the taxpayer who actually pays if a school district loses a lawsuit?
about 2 years ago
Certainly, but school district attitudes reflect attitudes in their communities. I have no qualms about punishing the entire community when school districts fail to protect their students. Will this hurt school district budgets and in turn the students themselves? Perhaps initially. But I’m convinced the only solution is to demand accountability and have it cost our communities. As it is now, I do not support public education here in the US. I have never voted for a school levy and won’t until schools are a safe environment for all students which they are not. I’ve tried to work with school administrators locally to seek support for gay and lesbian students with little success.
about 2 years ago
Yes it is, but until you have their UNDIVIDED attention by grabbing and squeezing on the one part of their anatomy they care most about until they whimper in pain … not much will happen. Appealing to people’s better natures doesn’t do a damn thing because the ones that are the problem don’t have better natures.
One can always donate any “winnings” to a suitable cause in any case. It doesn’t have to be about personal enrichment.
about 2 years ago
The total number of gay teens in the USA who committed suicide in September is actually seven:
Tyler Clementi (18)
Cody J. Barker (17)
Asher Brown (13)
Raymond Chase (19)
Seth Walsh (13)
Justin Aaberg (15)
Billy Lucas (15)
about 2 years ago
I feel pain in my heart each time i read this kind of things.