Just a Kiss

Guest Post by Oscar S.

São Paulo, Brazil. A few days ago two boys who met online, one 13, the other 18, skipped school to go to the movies. It was a date. Watching the film they cuddled, shared their popcorn and a cup of coke. After the movie, they sat in the cinema café. They hugged and eventually they kissed.

Then hell broke lose, changing their lives forever.

The lady at the popcorn machine was shocked. She called the manager. He called the mall security. They called the police. What happened then can only be described as one of the most bizarre convictions on sex assault ever. The older boy was ARRESTED for alleged RAPE.. He was sent to a cell with very real criminals. Not people who gave an innocent kiss, but robbers, murderers and the like. Jails here in Brazil are not like the prisons in the USA or Europe. They are overcrowded, dirty and dangerous.

Law in Brazil is pretty clear – if someone gets into a libidinous act with someone who is under the age of 14, it is RAPE. Works pretty well to put real paedophiles into jail. But when a kiss becomes rape there is a misinterpretation of the law. And there is something else: Images of the older boy showed that he didn’t even look like 18. This was a pure act of homophobia. If they would have been a straight couple–nothing would have happened. If it was a 13 year old boy issuing an 18 year old girl he would get a high-five.

The boy was released Saturday night. His name on the news is now reduced to his first letter (it wasn’t before). He might face 14 years jail for rape. Hopefully he will be free, but he is probably traumatized for life. He is making a university prep course with 140 students on his class. He will now have to  face his family, colleagues, school mates and people in his neighbourhood. He will have to face homophobes.  The same applies to the younger boy. And everyone knows what happened. And all this because two boys sneaked out of school for a movie, some popcorn and a kiss. Two boys are marked for life.

  

168 thoughts on “Just a Kiss”

  1. damnit. stupid people and stupid law. a kiss? cmon!
    5 year difference, dear god! … lame.

  2. This is sickening. In my opinion, this is just ONE reason to abolish “consenting ages” as a GENERAL law and judge each and every case INDIVIDUALLY on its merits — not just numbers.

    Guess what, if this had been about 2 GIRLS, I’m willing to bet that most probably NOTHING would have happened to either of them except maybe a slap on the wrist.

    1. and don’t forget girls often walk hand in hand in the streets and other places, if boys would do it… i bet people would immediately spot that.

      1. “and don’t forget girls often walk hand in hand in the streets and other places, if boys would do it… i bet people would immediately spot that.”

        Well, there ARE places that boys walk hand in hand in public — it is the most natural thing to do. Throughout East and Central Asia and many of the Pacific Islands it is common to see boys “being boyfriends” — not usually SEXUAL, but just showing others they are good friends. But, as they get older (usually by the second year of high school or equivalent) public homophobia takes over and those same boys will usually refrain from doing that (in public). I’m sure that in other locations (Latins, East Europeans), that custom may still apply, although maybe not so openly now.

        Why is it natural and acceptable for boys 5-14 yo [or so] to hold hands in public (and sleep with each other in the same bed) but just as soon as they pass puberty, it’s now considered ghastly homosexual? Many times, those same boys ARE STILL BEST FRIENDS, but they may not have sex with each other. It’s like saying to them, “Your close friendship is fine when you’re young[er] but now that you have pubic hair, it’s disgusting.”

        And, as you said, girls do this well into their adulthood and we look at it as if it’s totally normal. It is of course, but with the intensely male dominated cultures, it progresses from “normalcy” to an absurd [assumed] lesbian attraction. And that’s the same way females kissing in public are quietly accepted, even when kissing each other on their lips. (Of course now, with Hollywood getting into the act, it’s now more “becoming” of “ladies” to “blow their kisses alongside of the others cheeks — for the comedic effect, of course.) “Dahhling!

        ‹(•¿•)›

        1. To add to PenboyX remarks:

          There are countries and cultures where boys/men have an affection for one another that does indeed shock those who visit from places where it is considered taboo. In South India, for example, where I have lived on and off over the years, young men in particular will be holding hands, twining their toes around one another’s feet, holding each other close. They may or may not be sexually involved but obviously good friends. If we could blur the boundaries all over the world between friendship, caring, affection, attraction and sexual involvement we would not only make same sex lovers less of a target, but probably be much more caring friends to one another.

  3. Maybe the adults involved need a sex ed class to understand what rape is, and what it is about. Maybe they will also understand what the law is trying to protect victims against.

    when you blur what is a forced violence and what is consensual, you make for a worse society by confusing what is acceptable and what is not. You punish for what is done wrong, not for what might become or what could have become.

    this issue seems poorly handled indeed.

  4. @PenboyX
    You bring up a much ignored issue re: tolerence for same sex relationships among girls. Gay and straight boys often get a raw deal where age of consent is concerned.

  5. To me this is quite scary. I am 18 and have started dating a boy that has barely turned 13. We are just mad in love, nothing more!

    1. If you live in the U.S. that is scary and you should be very careful. Personally, I consider you to be a lucky guy but you need to be careful.

    2. I’ll probably be lambasted for it, but I’d like to submit that a 13 year old may not yet be able to fully grasp the concept of “mad in love”

      1. Can an adult fully grasp the concept of “mad in love”? Actually, is there one answer to that one? I mean, people know already what love is and how it works?

        I would like to know if there is any kind of rule about that =)

        1. I suppose you are right, but I think a 13 year old is far more likely to confuse other feelings for love than someone with more experience. And, yes I understand that time and age are only one factor – albeit an important one – in determining experience.

          1. I would say that there is nothing we can define as love, except what we chose to define so. Therefore, not having faced most of the world cruelty (in theory, and certainly not the case for the one involved in this case), the boy would probably believe far more in love than someone with a large experience.

            At least I used to believe much more when I was 13…

            1. At just 12yrs old, I experienced absolute, unconditional love with another boy named David. It was a love free of consequences and the trappings of an adult world. Even today, I often think about the purity & depth of that innocent love; a love that knew no earthly bounds.

            2. That is what I meant about this lad. But I don’t think you can ever truly know what love is, it is a huge combination of feelings. All I do know is that we are so happy together, on a totally different level.. An unreal, unbelievable level.

  6. It is sooo very important that these stories are told. I have two good friends, 13 and 16 who love each other. In Europe, it is also not save for them. It scares the hell out of them. This way they can not grow up like a ‘normal’ hetero can do….


    1. Max:

      It is sooo very important that these stories are told. I have two good friends, 13 and 16 who love each other. In Europe, it is also not save for them. It scares the hell out of them. This way they can not grow up like a ‘normal’ hetero can do….

      well in the netherlands they won’t put you in prison for a kiss.. Even if you’re being kissed by a man against your will, even he doesn’t have to go to jail.. (or it takes a verry long time)

      i’ve had a relationship in the netherlands with a 13 year old boy when i was 17 and everybody knew it.. 2 years later i still had a relationship with him.

      1. I really wish netherland mentality was the same all around the world about that…

        I wish you a long love life to you and your boyfriend ;)

      2. Unfortunately that is simply not true. the age of consent is 16 in the Netherlands. 17/18 year old boys are being prosecuted for having sex with 13 year olds. A french-kiss is regarded sexually penetrating the body and can even be prosecuted as rape if it is done against the other’s will.

        Talking to anyone under 16 on the internet with the intent of meeting them for sex is punishable as ‘grooming’.

        Posting naked or sexual pictures of anyone under 18 can be considered child pornography. So even two 14 year olds filming or photographing themselves or eachother can be prosecuted for childpornography.

        The strangest consequence is that having sex with a 16 year old is not illegal, photographing it however is.

  7. An 18 year old with a 13 year old, involved in sexual contact. This is peadiphillia, nothing less and this board seems to be encouraging it. At 18, one is a man. a 13 year old is a child. Adults engaging in sexual contact with children is wrong and illegal. No matter how you dress it up, W R O N G. Is MILKBOYS now just a cover for something else?

    1. You’re wrong, 18 year olds are not that mature in most cases, sometimes they’re just like a 13 year old in some ways. I agree that it would be wrong to have sex when the kid is 13, but a kiss and being in love should never be illegal.

    2. Actually, this is not pedophilia. By definition pedophilia is attraction to prepubescent children.

      Attraction to people in puberty is called ephebophilia, however at 13 he might even be done with puberty (I was), which would make it just gay. Don’t call a thing something it isn’t.

      Calling kissing sexual contact is also quite the stretch.

      Was anyone hurt? No, not until narrow minded people got involved.

      1. I totally agree with you conceptually, however you are speaking psychologically and Mariusz was speaking legally (using the wrong terms, yes). My point is, that 18 year olds need to be more aware of the laws (right or wrong) of their community and be more careful in public – as sad as that may be.

    3. by law what you say is correct. But, in reality u can’t say you are a child at 18 minus 1 day and a adult at 18+1 day. The term man, is something else. Also….there is a large discrepancy among “children”, some are 90% developed, either mentally or physically by 13-14, some are the opposite, so you can’t really put a boundary to it.

    4. It’s not “pediphilia”; if anything it’s hebephilia. By people five years apart. Both still in their teenage years. That aren’t even having sex. They’re kissing and dating. And it seems pretty consensual. You’re trying to make it sound worse than it is, really.

    5. Do you not realize that 100 years ago a boy of 13 was considered a man?
      Hundreds of years ago when you reached pubescence you were old enough to bear children and considered a man.

      Todays opinions of the age of 18 to be a man is completely incorrect and one of the reasons we fail as a society where in fact the age of maturity is reaching puberty an beyond.

      The age of innocence has moved to the point that we now seem to need to be 21 before we really can become men. In America, boys of 18 can go to war and die for their country but can’t drink a beer because they’re not old enough? What’s wrong with that picture?

      Read your history books Mariusz because it’s only been in the last 75 years that things have changed concerning how we’ve decided the age of a man.

      Btw, I’m really saddened by this story. Love should have no boundaries in a consensual party of two.

      1. People often forget that adulthood and childhood are cultural constructions. It change over time and will change again and again.


  8. Mariusz:

    An 18 year old with a 13 year old, involved in sexual contact. This is peadiphillia, nothing less and this board seems to be encouraging it. At 18, one is a man. a 13 year old is a child. Adults engaging in sexual contact with children is wrong and illegal. No matter how you dress it up, W R O N G. Is MILKBOYS now just a cover for something else?

    well sexual contact is maybe wrong but a kiss? I think there has to be a difference between a 18 year old boy who is in love with a 13 year old boy and a 40yo man who is in love with a 13 year old boy..

    some 13 year olds are very childish but some are more adult than the average 18 year old boys.

  9. A kiss is not much of a sexual act, moron.

    But I don’t see how this has more to do with homophobia than pedophilia hysteria. There are many cases of 18yo boys arrested for being with younger girls.

    Good luck getting the gay community to give a damn about anything besides themselves, especially anything that appears remotely pedophilic. But let’s call ILGA and see what they say….

  10. “And there is something else: Images of the older boy showed that he didn’t even look like 18. ” This has nothing to do with anything. I agree the arrest is rediculous. However, In many other countries, the idea of an 18 year old talking to a 13 year old online and organising a meet-up (DURING SCHOOLTIME NO LESS) is also illegal. It is akin to grooming. Something you lot know plenty about.

  11. Its simple, here im Brazil, if was a 18 yo guy kissing, grabbing and hassling a 13 yo girl, it would be ok. I know that for experience, on this president election gay marriage was like a bargain, but not to gay people, to the religious freaks, they didnt want abortion and gay marriage being allowed by law, and their will was promissed to them not only by one electable. In Brazil, they try to show a image that they dont have any kind of preconception but the raw true is that they have and lots of it. Just now black people start to being less bothered in jobs and on streets. If you wanna try Brazilian Hospitality, go for a walk dressed like a drag, one way only to the morgue.

    1. there was a vid on youtube about a guy who asked the ones who said abortion should not be permitted, what the penalty should be for this activity if it were to become illegal. Nobody could give an answer, most just stared off into space when they heard the question…..these people are pathetic, i’m so glad to live in Europe :)…and in a country where religion doesn’t mean anything, only money.

  12. It is really sad to see this happening here at Brasil… Once again lives were destroyed so the law and the idea of normality could persist.

    The argument is to protect the young boy from harm? Well… his boyfriend (or date, at least) was arrested because he kissed him. Maybe we can say he was protected after, let’s say, ten years in a shrink.

    I hate haters >.<

  13. OH my. There was no sexual contact at all. And here in brazil nothing would happen if it was a straight couple. Police was called only because it was a gay couple, not because of their age, which was the real problem.

  14. Does everyone actually forget what a pedophile actually is? I see that word used for anything involving an older person with a younger person now… and it’s RIDICULOUS.

    Pedophilia is only applicable when an adult is with a PREPUBESCENT child, meaning NOT having reached puberty yet. That’s right – NOT a 13 year old.

    The law is the only thing that makes what happened wrong, and I agree that the boy not even looking 18 does make a difference here – this was an act of homophobia, not pedophilia concern. The 18 year old looked younger, so it was just assumed two young boys were kissing in public, and that was enough to phone police. That’s homophobia.

    Also, I would point out that there are many religions that consider 13 the age when young men become just that, and are no longer children. The conservative laws of the last hundred years are the only thing saying differently. In fact, it has only been in the last hundred years legal ages have been raised higher than 12, because it was only children who were considered ‘too young’ previously, but now ‘young adults’ or ‘teenagers’ are also considered too young. That is NOT pedophilia, it is just illegal.

    It’s not nit-picking, either. Even by law, it is not pedophilia but just statutory rape. There is a HUGE difference. Let’s start to get these things right for a change so we can HATE people with the right terminology.

    1. don’t get me wrong, but you too don’t know what a pedophile is. So i will enlighten you: people(generally those who ended puberty) who are sexually attracted to prepubescent children. Nowhere in there does it say it anything about touching, so to actually be convicted of “pedophilia” you would have to at least touch. I’ts like accusing me that if i look at a yummy cake in a shop i’m a thief. Which brings me to think about the fact that some of the children kiss their parents on the mouth…according to law…that’s a no-no :)) .

    1. No idea, sorry.

      Found it on Tumblr and people blogging there are not really known for bothering to state sources for the stuff they blog :[

  15. The reason why him not looking 18 is pertinent to the situation is the women freaking out is disgusted by the fact that it’s two guys kissing rather then an older one kissing a younger.

    Personally I believe this should be judged by it’s merits. I envision it being a sweet little kiss because of the feelings of love that exist in those who haven’t grown cynic from life.. And I also believe that the two boys/guys in this situation are on similar levels of maturity.

    At the age of 18 (at least in the USA) 18 year olds are still going to school.. heck, it’s a lot more important to attend at the age of 18 then 13 (At least here.. at the younger ages you’re just learning the basics and not yet expected to retain much information).

    I’m 18 myself and don’t believe I’m even nearly done maturing yet.

  16. As i said on the board, to classify something like this as rape is bonkers(I mean to have one “catch all” offence but who am I to comment on another countries legal system. I hope sense prevails and no prosecution is brought. It’s odd as Brazilians have alway struck me as fairly tolerant and permissive in sexual matters.

  17. Hysteria wins. The Law is upheld, and Hatred is validated.
    This is a sick world when a kiss is considered a violent offense and Pedophilia.

  18. Very important to sort out the issues:

    1. Skipping school: if that were the main issue, then a) the clerk should have called an authority the minute the two boys showed up, and b) nobody would have gone to jail.

    2. Pedophilia vs. Homophobia: this is an area of guess-work because we don’t know, but I think most people who responded are correct that if this were a boy/girl combo or girl/girl combo, no calls would have been made. But, let’s focus clearly: a kiss in public in Brazil is not sexual contact. Therefore, it is not rape!

  19. Pathetic. I am Brazilian and I fell ashamed with the hypocrisis of people like the ones who called the police. The police should arrest the Politicians here as do worse everyday (including non consensual sex with juveniles), but nothing ever happens to them because the Media kind of covers them up. Then again, it happened because it was a gay couple.

  20. Sorry for bad English.

    I am Brazilian and I feel embarrassed to see that happening in this country .
    A country that has a lot to improve …
    But to condemn a young man of 18 years for rape of a minor who accepted kissing is pure homophobia.
    A boy with 20 year old kissing a 13-year-old girl would not be arrested.

    It’s outrageous, ridiculous and hypocritical country.

    Can not wait to get out of here.

  21. See I have a real issue with this. My friends jokingly call me a pedophile, but now that I’m 18 I get really concerned with them saying that in public. I mean I talk with my 15 year old brothers friends, I have no problem talking to young kids because I think they need someone to look up to. My best friend isn’t even 16 yet. But when the two of us go out to like dinner, we get stared at. Something is seriously wrong in the world. With so much hate, what’s wrong with some love?

    1. I can relate to your story all too well. My secret high school lover and I had a similar age difference. It had to have been the best kept secret of all time. We were together fo three years but it was the early 1960’s. He eventually painfully rejected me as he did “not want to be queer.” I never got over him. A few years back we finally connected and he stated he felt the same about me. We each went on to live our adult lives as heterosexuals and we each had several failed marriages. We now keep in contact via email. We could have had a life together. There was no gay awareness or support in those days. Hopefully life will be better for you and your friend.

  22. I’m afraid that we might think that this happens only here, in Brazil, but… is it true? I really don’t know. I’m ashamed that it happened. But saying that “uuuh, Brazil is a savage place” isn’t true either.

    I agree with most of you: homophobia first, than over exposure by media. What we must think, I guess, is how the social view came to see it that way and not in another, less prohibiting.
    Just thinking =)


  23. stewart:

    2. Pedophilia vs. Homophobia: this is an area of guess-work because we don’t know, but I think most people who responded are correct that if this were a boy/girl combo or girl/girl combo, no calls would have been made. But, let’s focus clearly: a kiss in public in Brazil is not sexual contact. Therefore, it is not rape!

    Here at Brazil, it is considered a crime when an adult have an “libidinous act” with someone who is considered incapable. This means 13 years old or less. Consent exists only from 14 over, and yet can be a problem to engage sexual contact with a minor than 18.
    Kissing is considered libidinous act, as well as other sorts of demonstrations of caring.
    Yeah, crazy.


  24. Edmund:

    It’s odd as Brazilians have alway struck me as fairly tolerant and permissive in sexual matters.

    The rest of the world (US and Europe) tend to see other cultures as exotic. Yesterday someone asked me if we here accept credit cards.

    I mean… we must think twice before embrace certain visualities ^^

  25. As horrible as this is, I am surprised these boys did this. Like I know they should have EVERY right to, but when I was 17 and I had crush on this 13 year old boy at my school, even if I knew he was gay, I would NEVER act on it, especially not in public because of all the shit that would go down from it.

    1. You make a good point….unless the boys were making a risky political statement, they should have know that kissing in a very public place could lead to dire consequences. Even being caught up in the moment of love, there’s still that rational piece of you that tries to pull your face away before the lips touch.

      I can think of a hundred public places where two boys will suffer some kind of consequences from public kissing….

      1. In their situation, I would never think I would go to jail for doing something there is clearly subversive. Not when the act is a kiss. Would wait ’till home? What if you can’t, ’cause no one there knows you’re gay?

        Many times the public space is way more private than our own home. Sad, paradoxal, but true nonetheless.

  26. In the US, AOC (age of consent) can be very confusing and vary from state to state. Also, some states still have a double standard with respect to same sex statutes of statutory rape, versus opposite sex statutory rape.

    I know a lot of hetero boys who are in the 18-19 yr old range out of HS. They routinely date HS girls and they have this down to a science. If the girl is 16 yrs old or older, it’s OK to have sex as long as the age spread is not more than four yrs (until she turns 18). So potentially, a 20yr old boy dating a 16yr old girl, can be charged with statutory rape only if the age span is over 60 months. BUT if the girl is 14 and the boy is 18 (both still in school), the fact that the girl is under the AOC of 16 and there is a 60 month plus age difference (depending on when they’re born), the boy can be charged with statutory rape. Also the statutes change again if a youth is under 14yrs old and change again if a youth is under 12yrs old. Confused (?), most people are….and this are just the laws in one state.

    One interesting note is that there is so much shame still attached to same sex couples in rural areas, that rarely are two boys still in school criminalized for having sex together. Sometimes because of parental demands, it’s turned over to CPS (child protective services) and the boys are made to go to counseling., Because as we all know, homosexuality is a curable ‘choice’.;-)-

  27. Sad story that brings up several issues. Technically, this story has nothing to do with pedophilia as has already been pointed out because pedophiles are attracted to prepubescent children. Secondly, it is unfortunate that pedophiles are equated with child molesters. There are many pedophiles who never act on their attraction to children and live quiet, productive lives. Sexual orientation can be gender specific or age specific. So the issue is not whether one is a pedophile but ones conduct.

    Furthermore, I’m not aware of any country were kissing per se is against the law. So it is remarkable that this arrest was even made. When I was 19 a 13 year-old friend of my younger sister’s threw me down on the bed and impulsively kissed me on the lips one day. He professed to have what he called “faggot feelings”. I was still in the closet at that time. Nothing more ever happened and we are still friends today. Needless to say, no trauma resulted from this experience. But how different that would have been if I had been arrested.

    1. Kissing isn’t against the law here in Brazil.

      Doing anything sexual (“libidinous” is the word) with a 13yo or younger, however, is against the law. When he turn 14 it gets a little easier, because THEN consent start to be considered.

      Until 14 the kid is considered incapable of making good decisions about his own life.


    2. islanddreamer:

      Sad story that brings up several issues. Technically, this story has nothing to do with pedophilia as has already been pointed out because pedophiles are attracted to prepubescent children. Secondly, it is unfortunate that pedophiles are equated with child molesters. There are many pedophiles who never act on their attraction to children and live quiet, productive lives. Sexual orientation can be gender specific or age specific. So the issue is not whether one is a pedophile but ones conduct.
      Furthermore, I’m not aware of any country were kissing per se is against the law. So it is remarkable that this arrest was even made. When I was 19 a 13 year-old friend of my younger sister’s threw me down on the bed and impulsively kissed me on the lips one day. He professed to have what he called “faggot feelings”. I was still in the closet at that time. Nothing more ever happened and we are still friends today. Needless to say, no trauma resulted from this experience. But how different that would have been if I had been arrested.

      What’s happening now in the states (with the witch hunt for sexual predictors), is that minors are being labeled ‘sex offenders’ for life. It’s a loophole in the law that has to be sewn up or lives are destroyed forever. Imagine being 30 yrs old and having something you did at 16 with somebody younger, still haunting you in the places you live & work.

      1. Yes, it is every bit as bad here in the US. There is so much hysteria surrounding this issue. When laws intended to protect young people ruin their lives something needs to change. But it will take a revolution in how we view human sexuality before that really happens. Right now religious zealots seem to own this issue, unfortunately.

  28. I feel compelled to comment one more time due to the remark that the two boys should have known better. What we’re saying is, by the time you’re a teenager you should have become so familiar with the oppressions the world dishes out that you’re already complying. Let’s not be too harsh here. Yes, I care about the safety and well-being of these kids, and my own kids. On the other hand, every day I have to encourage my kids not to be so confined by the oppressions of the world that they will never actually live.

    1. I couldn’t agree more…but there are times (within homophobic constraints), that you press the limits of common sense. One perk (if you want to call it that), of two boys kissing in public is the raw excitement of trying to get away with it. Even to the extent that it makes the kiss all the more endearing. But as in this example, they took a risk and it definitively didn’t pay off.

      If I was that age again, I would make a ‘game’ out of public places safe to kiss…just to capture the electricity of the moment. All I’m saying is; use your head until we live in safer times. It’s pointless to argue about ideal-world versus real-world.

  29. I agree if the 18yr old looked younger than he is. It must be an act of homophopbia. The only point were I can see the law (brazil) comming from that the kissing could have escalated into something more, but I don’t think they can prove that. I guess though kissing is a libidinous act. But for sure not rape. I’m 19, and am attracted to younger ages, 14 or so. The only way I would ever get caught kissing If I was incredibly stuck in the moment. Otherwise I would wait until home. In a way though should have known better. Nontheless he should not be in jail: at worst a slap on the wrist.

    The worst part about this is obviously support the 18 year old for not going to jail, but we don’t have the power to stop it. The law is going to do what it is set out to do. Punish him to the full extend of the law. I hate government.

  30. I in a way find it funny how when being teenagers (especially so in the are of England i live in) that a difference of one year can make such a difference on peoples opinions about a relationship. For example me and my friends where talking with a teacher at one point and we came onto a topic like this and our teacher said that they thought it was quite wrong for a 17 year old to be in a relationship with a 14 year old (we were talking about an actual relationship at my school) and i just replied to my teacher with “Why? My grandparents have an age difference of 15 years. So my granddad was 30, in his prime time of his life, while my grandma was still in school and hadnt even reached the age of consent. But when you say that one is 80 and the other 65 it doesnt sound as ‘bad’ “.

    I find it so strange with how societies thoughts about age differences changes with age, because to be honest there isnt any difference in the age at all. Yeah you might think a bit different but hey im 16 have thought the way i do know sine i was 11 at least.

    I think that it should be based on how much the people care for each other and how much they love each other and not their age, and gender obviously. (:

    1. Age of consent laws are based on maturation during puberty. It’s the old notion that during puberty you can’t make rational, sexual decisions for yourself. Normally, there are light yrs of difference between a 13yr old and a 16yr old and then again there is a huge jump between a 16yr old and a 19yr old in maturity. Not always the case of course, but the average.

      So law makers are naturally more inclined to protect a 14yr old, than a 18yr old and then doubly so if the youth is under 14 and even more so if under 12yrs old. Personally, I think a 14+ yr old boy ought to be able to do anything he wants with his body. Unfortunately, the traditional rules in being a minor means that adults get to decide your fate and well being.

      After you’re an adult, no one really cares about ages differences other than to tease or condemn….there’s not a damn thing they can do about it.

  31. “Two boys are marked for life.”

    Maybe the older boy should have thought about his actions before kissing the younger boy in public!

  32. If you look at the comments on the original newscast you will see nothing but pages of hate spewing forth. Lets not make nice of this or blame the boys – there are a lot of very hateful people who would like to see young gays commit suicide, die or imprisoned forever.

    1. “Brazilian legislators have no sociological eyes.”

      Brazil, meet the American religious right. You’ll both be wining and dining together in no time. Hey, our Congressional House of Representatives will even foot the bills. And, oh yes, don’t forget your wives and mistresses when you join together at church. ‹(•¿•)›

      1. Mistresses? I heard that only democrats have sex outside of marriage. But then there are a few repubicans in office who have a secrete young boyfriend.

    2. but lets be fair here. we dont know whats going on behind the scenes there. maybe the prosecuters and the DA are just as concerned about this than we are.

      i really dont believe anyone wants to send an 18 year old kid to jail for an innocent date if thats all it was.

      you have to understand that they have to make sure that there is no wrong doing, because there is precedent for it in the past. their just doing there jobs

      id be confident that most of the world is good and accepting

  33. As ridiculous as the charges may be (of course a kiss is not rape), the 18 y/o should have never put himself in that situation. Scream homophobia all you want to (would you scream “heterophobia” if it was an 18 y/o boy and a 13 y/o girl?), but this guy had no business going out with a 13 y/o.

  34. This was only a slight act of homophobia. According to the Grupo Gay da Bahia (group that fights for LGBT rights), every two days, a homosexual is murdered in Brazil. This week after violent acts against homosexuals in São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro, Makenzie University issued a statement on its website declaring themselves against the law against homophobia that in a national congress for a vote. According to the university is not wrong the teachers encourage homophobia. As we can see homophobia in Brazil is still far from over, people are being killed, assaulted and humiliated. We Brazilians hope that homophobia and the church is not stronger than the and justice. We hope that the law in making homophobia a crime will approved.

  35. And this comes from a pretty liberal country like Brazil, where a lot of folks are Easy Ozzy about Sexual Orientation? It was a kiss for God sake not a blow job! Jeez.

    Whiterabbit.

    P.S. If this was an 18 year old boy and a 13 year old girl, most folks would look away, if it stayed at a kiss? Homophobia will never go away as long as Religion and it’s hypocrisy exists. Period.

    1. and 18 year old boy and 13 year old girl i would think would raise just as many flags. like the author said if it was the girl who was 18, then thats a different story

      its ok for boys to climb up the ladder at girls, but not ok for boys to climb down the ladder

      1. if the girl looked as young as the the 13 year old boy in the news video below kissing the 18 year old in question, I tend to agree with you. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just saying I think it would raise flags. That boy looked pretty young in appearance – the 13 year old.

  36. I am afraid of this social construction… I am afraid of being attracted to a 13 year old myself. I feel like I will never live genuinely because what I am is deemed wrong by many. It really hurts me.

    1. I feel your pain. Most of us on this site can appreciate the beauty of a 13 y/o boy. To have a love relationship with a 13 y/o is another matter. If you truely love the boy you would be concerned about what would be in the best intrest for him.

      1. And who is to say which is the best for the kid? The law? The science? You or me?

        Let’s face it, there is no simple answer.
        But I would never say that avoidance is the best way to deal with an issue. If the boy is experiencing his sexuality with another guy, well… it can go all wrong? Yes. It can be a beautiful love story? Yes. It can end up with him looking for it in somewhere else and get really fucked up? Again, yes.

        And who is to say that the 18 yo wasn’t concerned with the best for the 13 yo?

      2. I believe most of the harm that comes from inter-generational relationships stems from society’s condemnation of such relationships. When the older lover is arrested that ensures the negative outcome that society predicts. Parents in Western society view minors as property, so when an older boy gets involved with their 13 year-old son they see it as a threat to their influence over their child. Add to the mix homophobia and you get a toxic brew that dooms such relationships. There is no intrinsic harm in a relationship, mutually agreed to, between an 18 year-old and a 13 year-old. It is the warped, guilt ridden view of sex that society holds that demonizes these relationships. Sure there are hazards related to sexual activity as there is in preparing and eating food. Knowledge is the answer, something an older lover is more likely to be able to impart to a younger lover than a peer would be. But at the heart of it all it is a religious and parental control issue that will not change anytime soon.

        1. it all comes down to if the child is mature and understanding of the situation enough to make his own decisions. and thats where the grayness is, its an issue like abortion that will never have a definitive answer. atleast in our lifetime

        2. @islanddreamer:
          Everything you said in that comment is the absolute truth. You brought this situation (and others similar) down to its lowest common denominator. It couldn’t have been said any better.
          ‹(•¿•)›

  37. Im Brazilian too and from Sao Paulo too. Im happy to see that there are many brothers here, hehe.

    In Brazil this is a crime and I hate this… The problem is that Brazil is a very homophobic country, but we r fighting for changes. In Sao Paulo we have the biggest gay Parade of world…

    So… If someone wants to talk or same paulista wants to hang out, e-mail me or add on msn. Im 15.

    Kisses

  38. This is a sad story, indeed tragic. Today in Brazil and I believe that in many countries we live in paranoia and hypocrisy. This incident is unfortunate and certainly marked the lives of these young people.
    the most common thing in Brazil for men 20 years or more dating girls of 13, 14. But if this age difference are between boys of the same sex is considered pedophilia. We live in times of repression and paranoia.
    Fuck all the hypocritical western society.
    Best regards Pablo from Cute teens boys blog

  39. Maybe I should have made myself clearer? I agree if it goes beyond a kiss on the cheek or lips, then maybe people would look at them with worrying eyes?
    But I think sex between an 18 year old and a 13 year old is no no. It’s off limits, period.

    Whiterabbit.

    1. I’m afraid of anything that end up with “period.”. Life, concepts, truths: they’re not simple, there is no unique way.

      1. When I ran that young adults board back in the late 90’s and the early part of this century, the topic and practice of intergen relationships was brought up often. Clearly, there were no absolutes and almost every relationship was somewhat different. Obviously, some were destructive and some were not.

        I remember one 14yr old boy writing in about his uncle. I think the uncle was pretty young, but the boy was adamantly in love with him. And you could tell he wasn’t confused or tormented, as he articulated his unconditional love for his uncle. He recounted a story about both of them sitting on a dock and rubbing bare feet together in the warm sunlight of summer. We all read this and the account took our breath away…….

        These are issues that outsiders can’t always rule on and no simple truths there.

        1. You see, right now I’m pretty sure I’m in love with Real1 =)

          or, at least, with the ways/he thinks and expresses.


          1. Tales:

            You see, right now I’m pretty sure I’m in love with Real1 =)
            or, at least, with the ways/he thinks and expresses.

            Sweet…if only! <3

        2. id have to disagree with you

          as sweet and pure as love can be. i just cant trust a relationship between a minor and an adult without a blink of an eye.

          the maturity of a child isnt full yet, espicially mentally. i mean, some may be more mature than others. but its something id still question. im not on board with true love between a boy and a man can be true, i think its just a fantasy we create in our minds

          prove me wrong, but im weary of the damage it can cause

          1. I’m here to tell ya that it happens all the time. Often, the boy’s grades improve and in general, his outlook on life is very positive. However that being said, the relationship is fraught with many pitfalls. The two have to deal with family and friends and how ‘they’ are perceived….if they’re caught in any sort of sexual situation, the adult usually goes to jail and the youth is devastated.

            If the adult treats the youth as an equal in most things the relationship brews fine and they both grow. The adult can never lever his knowledge/experience against the youth…he has to remain passive and not dominate. The boy is still exploring his world and testing boundaries…the adult has to be patient in all this and not become the ‘parent’.

            So yeah, it can also become a nightmare for the boy if things ever sour and the adult moves on or uses the boy….I’ve seen this scenario as well. Conversely, I know male couples who have been together for generations and the younger of the two will happily tell you that he was a boy when the relationship started. If that isn’t love, I don’t know what is.

            I think everyone is fast to condemn intergen relationships because of the ‘potential’ for disaster….but what about the ones that work, should they have been denied as well?

            1. i see what your saying, and ive heard alot of people feel that way

              but i honestly dont believe it to be a reality. i think its something the adult percieves to be there, but is not actually there.

              i think there is too much room for the youth to be taken advantage of at an early age (mentally) maybe the youth is taken into a relationship at clutches on to it from an early confused age and just grows with it. i dont believe that just because they can have a healthy relationship for a long time that its actually a true relationship

            2. It isn’t a “reality” to you, because you don’t know of any people in this situation. I do.

              You presuppose that it’s chiefly a Svengali like adult trolling for boys. And further, you believe that people in this situation replicate the Greg Louganis story; wherein an adult makes the younger person codependent by helping to lower his self-esteem, abuses him regularly etc.

              If you noticed, I wasn’t advocating this relationship and stated clearly it was fraught with many pitfalls. What you don’t seem to understand is that people wind up in these relationships as a matter of serendipity. And for those couples, I don’t want anyone deciding for them that what they have is ‘wrong’.

            3. Really, marry me =)

              that’s my way of saying “he’s right”. Or, better, “I agree”, since “right” and “wrong” are complicated words =)

  40. 2010: Sex between an 18 year old and a 13 year old is no no. It’s off limits, period.

    1980: Sex between two men is no no. It’s off limits, period.

    1950: Sex between a black man and a white woman is no no. It’s off limits, period.

    1. Your country may not give the freedoms you want, but love seems to find a way even under the worst possible circumstances.

      1. @Allan Martinsky:
        Sorry, but not by a long shot when you consider the asinine religious controlled Iran and other Arabian countries as well as other religious dominated African countries and let’s not forget, North Korea — who knows what’s going on in there and how they handle homosexuals.

        There may be upset at this or other things in your country just as I and other can “complain” about aspects of life in America, but all of them “shine” in comparison to the above mentioned countries, just to name a few.

        And if that’s your true name, it doesn’t look like any name that would be “native” of Brazil — it looks like your parents or grandparents immigrated to there just to get away from other worse things in their original homeland — wherever it was.

        ‹(•¿•)›

    1. Thanks for posting this video actually showing the 2 boys (younger one out of focus). Too bad this is only in Portuguese (or Spanish, maybe?) — Would be nice if in English also (or even with sub-titles). The 18-yo does indeed look (to me) younger than 18, so I would conclude that the police was called for homophobic reasons, and not age difference. In my opinion, the callers should have been arrested for meddling in their personal business.

      Both are extremely cute, too.

      ‹(•¿•)›

    2. This is really a cute kid. I hate to think what will happen to him when he is incarcerated but I think we all know. Justice prevails?

  41. This all anti child abuse laws are sick worldwide. It has nothing in common with common sense and it rather hurt the kids than helps them.

  42. i wanted to defend the brazilians effort to be stout on the law, which i respect. but i think the author is right. we wouldnt have any assumptions of misconduct if it was a 18 year old girl.

    although, you can never be so safe when it comes to paedo. even if its consensual, there are alot of paedos out there who have manipulated kids before and taking advantage of them. im just saying its not beyond precedent to atleast for the authorities to find out what was going on.

    but its ashame that people will be tried so viciously over something so minute. youd think the prosecuter could cut them a break once they know its just innocent romance

    1. “although, you can never be so safe when it comes to paedo. even if its consensual, there are alot of paedos out there who have manipulated kids before and taking advantage of them. im just saying its not beyond precedent to atleast for the authorities to find out what was going on.”

      The amount of true pedophiles out there damaging children are minuscule in comparison to the witch-hunting ‘machine’ (ala the press and public opinion.)

      The hysteria surrounding pedophiles is so bad, that a lot of good men & women shy away from mentoring youth, because they are afraid they might be accused of wrong doing. I myself mentor boys in a small town setting. I’m ever so careful that I don’t hug them or wrestle with them….even though this would be incredibly fun & positive, I don’t want to give this community any ammunition against me. MANY have said I shouldn’t be around boys because I’m gay. Obvious, I’ve proven them dead wrong. Most recently, two of the boys I mentored from 12-18 aged out of the program. I helped one get into college and the other one find employment. I love them both and they are my friends and my ‘family’….I wished I had a hundred more.

      But the resistance of gay adults to mentor is real and I hear it all the time. So all the positive energy they could give, never gets generated….I find that incredibly sad…..

      1. i think your distorting reality

        i believe that alot of people shy away, but i think thats because they are being paranoid or they actually fear they are harming the child because they have feelings for them

        if you dont fear harming the child you should have no guilt in helping mentor them, espicially when faced against bad media (which only comes if you cross the line)

        BUT i will definitely agree with you that the perception is different for gay men. completely! sometimes its viewed as ok, but thats only if the gay man is a fashion model kinda queer (the public opinion view of what a gay man is supposed to be)

        even my own parents claim there is a “odd coincidence” between gays and paedos

        but still, its no excuse for padeos to say they are being discriminated against

        1. I’m not “distorting reality” at all…but I question how much you get out. I’ve asked a dozen gay adults to consider mentoring a youth. They all said the same thing; too many members in this community would consider them predators and/or make trouble for them in some way.

          This may not be a common excuse in metro areas, but it’s salient in rural areas.

        2. The paranoia stems from a legitimate concern that if I mentor a boy I will be condemned by segments of society and even my own friends in the gay community – not from any fear that I may harm the child. As a result gay youth in rural communities are really left to fend for themselves.

          1. Exactly and well put….we’re safer to be around boys that hetero men, much safer. We’re working hard here to give queer youth a safe haven……..still fighting administration in the HS.

  43. My mum is 5 years older than my dad, nothing wrong with it. This is homophobia. Clearly!

  44. OMFG… what is this world coming to … this is just appalling. what on earth r we so scared of that we do such a horrendously traumertising thing to young people. this is just Arthur Millers crucible witch hunts being played out for real.. just the witches to day are paedophiles and or gays.

    1. Unprotected minorities have become the target of all hate-nuts in the world. If this economic crisis gets worse, paedophiles and other deviants may end up in a gas chamber.With all the information that is being gathered on the net,it won’t be difficult to round up tens of thousands of them at 6 AM, all around the world.

  45. I talked about leaving here, but I do not know a country where it would be more open and less hypocritical.

    Canada, Australia, England, Swiss, Netherlands, Sweden?

    For now I will focus on finding a boyfriend …

    1. “For now I will focus on finding a boyfriend …”

      There ya go….let love find a way….

    2. Wouldn’t surprise me if something similar could happen here so… I’d suggest some other country.

  46. There is enough hate in the world. Spread the love!! Hopefully the 18 year old gets a fair trial!!


  47. 17o0o:

    the maturity of a child isnt full yet, espicially mentally. i mean, some may be more mature than others. but its something id still question. im not on board with true love between a boy and a man can be true, i think its just a fantasy we create in our minds

    You know, I see one big problem here. The same powers that stated what is to be an adult, what is to be a child, who can kiss and whom can be kissed, also define the idea of “mature”.
    Once again, as I asked about love, I ask about maturity: can we define that? And when we do so, what happens to the people that stay outside of this “circle of maturity”?

    You see, being straight is, right now, in the circle of normality. We, as queers (if you are, I know I’m am, at least in a non-heterosexual way of acting on my desires).
    To me, it is quite the same problem. I have 24yo and every day I find something new I was being unmature about.

    It’s very complicated to work with these concepts, since they’re socially and historically constructed, and having a history does not mean to be “correct”. It’s all a discursive stance…

  48. I WAS A SMALL-TIME (25 YEARS AGO) I REMEMBER: FOR BOYS walked together HAND IN SCHOOL, Comp THE slept on the camps. Time was KISS. SOMETIMES EVEN Sexual FUN. Boys grew up to heterosexual. Who wanted was HOMO. NOW Came WESTERN CULTURE (I’m EASTERN EUROPE.) TODAY IS SUCH BEHAVIOR destroyed. Homophobia and hate. I think: IF RAPE – WRONG, IF FEELING – THIS IS BEAUTIFUL.


  49. 17o0o:

    the maturity of a child isnt full yet, espicially mentally. i mean, some may be more mature than others. but its something id still question. im not on board with true love between a boy and a man can be true, i think its just a fantasy we create in our minds

    2010: True love cannot exist between a man and a boy.

    1980: True love cannot exist between a man and another man.

    1950: True love cannot exist between a black man and a white woman.

  50. Basically the sme thing would happen and has happened in Holland. The age of consent is 16. So if a 16 year old boy kisses a 15 year old boy in theory that is a crime. Usually the se cases are not prosecuted but the age difference matters and with 18-13 it would probably go to trial.

  51. To further worsen
    I live in Sao Paulo, and I saw NOTHING about this.
    No news in newspaper, magazine or television news.
    Amazing how these types of things happen and we do not know!

    1. Usually when you either hear of “gay news” or don’t hear of it (or hear it much later, only after just about everyone else is reporting it), you can blame it on whatever the political leaning of that particular news outlet — either paper, TV or Internet.

      ‹(•¿•)›

    2. Just found about it on Orkut on the homofobia já era community. It was published in Globo.com and another website which I wont show, because they showed their faces.

      1. Hmm…
        I don’t looked in globo.com, neither in orkut…
        But I subscribe uol.com.br, I always watch Jornal Nacional, the “Datena’s” Journal (in Band) … And nothing!!

        I would like to see the report you won’t show here…
        How can I contact you?


  52. Josh:

    No idea, sorry.
    Found it on Tumblr and people blogging there are not really known for bothering to state sources for the stuff they blog :[

    It’s from deviantart, quite old, also the young boy there is 15 and the older one 18.

  53. The two boys have made no crime to no law, and this has just been an act of Homophobia. It would happen also in Italy, in the same case, but I believe law has to be modified, because when two persons have reached puberty and are almost 13, they are conscient of what they do, so no law should forbid them to kiss or to do what naturally their love leads them to do. I am very in pain for those two boys. I hope well for them.

  54. Brazil is a country ridiculous because the laws here are horrible and should all be redone because the laws here were unfortunately not made to arrest the wrong and always end up holding the right. And qunado arrest the wrong they get out of jail soon after. So the only thing I have to say is that I am ashamed of Brazil
    SHAME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. I share your deception with brazilian law… it made me suffer several times before and still will keep dificulting my life until somebody do something about it…

      (quando = when | mas eu sei que você errou pq escreveu com raiva ;D )

  55. I am so glad you mentioned this as it is a very important consideration when dealing with issues…However the government is too narrow-minded to see past their own wealth and greed.


    Tales:

    People often forget that adulthood and childhood are cultural constructions. It change over time and will change again and again.

  56. This law really scares me here in Brazil. I’m 18 and I have a 12 year old very nice friend =3, but we can’t act freely in public or our lives will be gone. We both know about our complicated situation, but we still go ahead, cuz love is rly more important than anything =D
    And when we get older, we’ll stfu the homophobes!!!
    HA!

    1. I have been where you are at. Just be careful and do the best for your friend. I sincerely wish you both the very best.

    2. Well, with or without this law, if I had a friend like you have, even though he was much younger than me, I would never lose sight of him!
      I would be very close to him! And do not think about dirty things! NEVER, with someone younger!

      I still have less than 18 years, so I need to enjoy! :D

      1. Don’t worry, i promised him that I’ll be his shield forever, and nobody would can hurt him while i’m alive.
        Happily our minds are pure like water, and we just want to live in peace togheter, and someday, I know, we’ll can!

        1. Sorry, but I’m a little jealous x.x
          You don’t now how much I wish someone to say that to me and about me…

          Someday, like you too, I’ll find someone *-*
          Until this day, I hope my heart don’t break in pieces x.x

          1. You don’t need to be jealous, everybody was born with somebody to love, no matter the way you are. But, some ppl need more time to find their partners than others, like i waited for 17 years x.x … but, i met him when i was 15, and cuz of our fear of homophobes we pretended a normal friendship. And one night, looking at the stars, we discovered the true, and after that i could live beside my little star, and do not just worship him from far…

            1. Stars… Wooow!
              Now I’ll have a better night!
              thank you ^^

              just one more quesion: are you from brazil too ?

            2. Sou sim, do Rio de janeiro!
              Brasileiros aqui tem aos montes o.O”

            3. Só para saber x3
              Preciso aprender a fuçar nisso aqui, quem sabe não encontro alguém … ?

              (Quem estiver acompanhando, vai ficar curioso até usar um tradutor!! )

            4. também pensei nisso =D
              a gente entende o que eles falam mas nem sempre eles nos entendem, como o “a gente” que eu usei ali em cima… nenhum tradutor vai trazer pra eles o significado correto x3

              ( rotfl !!! =D )

            5. Bem essa! xD
              Se eu colocasse com as minhas gírias também, ia ser muita sacanagem !

              Nya, vc tm orkut ou msn pra mim add?? >D

            6. dos dois só uso o msn, mas não colocaria meu email no meio do fórum… =/
              sry

            7. well, if you want to chat, I think my profile has my msn ^^

              ah sim, brasileiro também =D

  57. I’m wondering if anyone finds Edward Brongersma’s or Theo Sandfort’s books on man/boy love helpful or not when considering this issue. Although 18 and 13 could be more a peer relationship, easily. Depending on the mental age of the two.

  58. Some boys under 14 are more mature as others, and some men over 20 or 30 are more immature as the teenagers… love is good in all cases

  59. A kiss is a kiss that is supposed to be shared with someone you love, it’s the kinda stuff like this that makes us all to scared to admit who we are. And when something like this happens it adds fuel to the flame, which will cause emotional conflict (like oh if I love him I might go to prison) as apposed to (I have to be the spiting image of what everyone wants me to be), has anyone asked them what they wanted. I think my point has gotten across the boarder line.

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