Kids locked up for Profit
No other country of the world puts as many of its citizens behind bars as the United States of America, especially minors. There are diverse reasons for this but other than America’s failed “war on drugs” there is one that stands out: The privatisation of prisons. Privatising any part of public service is usually a terrible idea but trying to make a business out of something like prisons is such an obviously fucked up plan that even America’s closest allies are disgusted by it.
And since bad ideas almost always have bad consequences the USA end up with cases like a bill in Michigan that guarantees private prisons a occupancy rate of 90% because less prisoners would be a drag on profits. Or the judges in Pennsylvania who were earning millions of dollars for jailing kids for minor offenses. And things like this are going on to this day, often with the help of American schools where cops are already part of the daily routine. For example in Mississippi were a county is running a school-to-prison pipeline:
An investigation launched last December revealed that “the agencies have helped to operate a school-to-prison pipeline whereby children arrested in local schools become entangled in a cycle of incarceration without substantive and procedural protections required by the U.S. Constitution. The department’s findings show that children in Lauderdale County have been routinely and repeatedly incarcerated for allegedly committing school disciplinary infractions and are punished disproportionately, without constitutionally required procedural safeguards. Children have also been arrested at school for offenses as minor as defiance.
And to make this clear, “defiance” can be anything, even laughable offenses like dress code violations. And hardly surprising, it’s mostly queer kids and those who happen to be anything but white who end up in this horrible system. And once they’re in, it’s almost impossible to get out:
In 2009 the Southern Poverty Law Center brought a class-action lawsuit against the Lauderdale County Juvenile Detention Facility, accusing it of keeping youths “crammed into small, filthy cells and tormented with the arbitrary use of Mace as a punishment for even the most minor infractions — such as ‘talking too much’ or failing to sit in the ‘back of their cells.’”
Photos by Steve Liss for No Place for Kids






about 9 months ago
This is really sad :\…
about 9 months ago
This is disgusting on so many levels. And it’s a perfect example of how USA is run not by the “morals” and laws that are so often touted through the many idiot religions, but instead by the clout of the Dollar.
It’s disgusting that a “democractic” or “republic” government is also swayed by money in both directions: Private industry lobbies to get laws passed for the sole purpose of providing a “stable” income to those industries. And, in turn, our government officials including who are supposed to be “impartial” judges taking kickback money from those very same industries who benefit directly from those same laws.
And, to add flies to the shit, they (the above industries and the directly involved government officials) “conviently” add the religious “moral factor” on top of it all making the public accept that is the “proper way” to handle “misbehaving” children. After all, if they can throw the bible into this fray, then they have the last of the building blocks to work with for our religiously stupid general public — again, all for the sake of moneys being paid out.
about 9 months ago
I think it’s time we all took away Religions Charitable Status and taxed these fuckers for at least 50% income tax, then building tax, VAT and whatever else. And make it a hate crime/criminal offence to spew bile from a pulpit and arrest the bastard coming out of the door if he does. That’ll do for a start. And make ANY Politician from Whatever Party and whatever country resign in a leadership contest, or from a position of Power, if he starts on Christian/Moral/Family values. That’s usually a big clue to them being a money grabbing whoremaster fuckwit of the highest order.
about 9 months ago
I couldn’t agree with you more. In America, we have what’s called “Real Property Tax” (yearly) for the land the churches are on and the value of any structures on said land. And, yes, at the very least, 50% Income Tax on both the church and any/all of the pastor’s/priest’s/other workers salaries.
about 9 months ago
Religions like martyrs. So better not preventing them speak, it would probably backfire. Tax is a good idea, but Reason is the only definitive weapon against religion. Yet reason demands educated people to be effective, and I mean educated, not school-formatted, know-it-all-because-I’ve-been-taught-by-academic-authorities people.
about 9 months ago
Its the American way. MONEY MONEY MONEY
about 9 months ago
Having worked with kids in the probation system in California for better than two decades, I will only say this is a short sighted naive, idealized and ultra-liberal view. Blaming the “system” is a denial of the fact that America has an underclass of people who have no business having kids. Gang violence is very real as is rape and racial bullying that are under reported in the media.
about 9 months ago
Who decides who is eligible to reproduce ?
I guess your underclass are trailer trash and the inhabitants of ghettos. Stopping them from breeding is the first step on the path to eugenics and we all know where that ends up.
Any country that has armed police in places of education has no right to call itself civilised.
Your love of your bibles and your guns is what is driving the rest of the western world away from you.
I know our fuzzy left of centre government is less than perfect and the EU is a joke but your claim to be the land of the free is risible.
about 9 months ago
Your government is not “fuzzy.” I agree with your comment about guns and bibles.
about 9 months ago
If you worked for the probation system in California Bruce, then you cannot speak objectively since you were a paid shill for a profoundly sick society. The “system” is exactly what has been a failure, not the humans in it.
about 9 months ago
I did not work for the probation system but I worked with referrals from probation and placed in our group homes.
about 9 months ago
It’s that very system that created that underclass in the first place. The US doesn’t have all those problems because its people are inherently more vile or violent; it’s your country that makes them that way.
Your comment shows the genius behind all of this; you desperately cling to a system to protect you from the ill effects that very system creates. You are a junky. You’re addicted to it. You probably know that it is slowly going to kill you, but you just don’t know how to stop.
And quite frankly, the only way to do it would be to go cold turkey. It cannot be fixed, no matter what phony you’ll elect into office. You’d need to completely tear it down, remove its putrid, rotten core and start from scratch.
about 9 months ago
very well said, tim!
about 9 months ago
UhOh!
‘USA USA USA’ — is that not the chant by that same ‘underclass of people who have no business having kids’.
Where else will the USA get a continuous supply of teenagers to feed the military whenever the leaders of that country of extremists once more decide to engage in war for no good reason.
Where else but the USA can draft dodgers be elected as President to order those kids into battle when they themselves were far too cowardly. Where else but the one time richest country in the world deny it’s own people easy access to healthcare and freedom from poverty.
Dear Bruce — you cannot defend anything about this topic and a recognition of your national failings is usually the first step in sorting out your problems.
about 9 months ago
Bruce has finally outed himself as a crypto-fascist. And anyone who disagrees with his ukases and edicts he calls a troll.
about 9 months ago
Why such a rude comment ? (or is it some kind of private joke ?)
I think you are the “trollest” guy in this discussion. Bruce is just sharing his experience, and though I disagree with his interpretation, he is perfectly entitled to tell his mind, like any of us I guess.
about 9 months ago
Yep…because that is who joins the military. Let’s try not to combat offensive ideas with other offensive ones, eh?
about 9 months ago
Isn’t it amazing?
Can’t smoke until 18 – too young to know the effects. Can’t sign a contract until 18 – unable to understand the ramifications. Can’t drink until 21 – too young to understand the effects. Can’t buy a gun until 18 – too irresponsible. And yet, while so very immature and irresponsible, unable to understand the consequences of actions, kids suddenly become adults when the State decides they’ve done something so irresponsible and without consideration for the consequences that they must be an adult. Then, we lock them up. Put them in a place where the assault and suicide rate is so bad that even the state becomes ashamed…..
Some things have no right to be capitalistic; hospitals and prisons are cheif among them. The role of a business is to increase customers to be successful. A prison and a hospital are successful only when they have no customers. The opposite is shameful, being operated by the shameless.
-randy
about 9 months ago
Don’t forget “Can’t have sex until 18, brain isn’t developed enough to make those types of decisions.” I always loved that argument. It’s true in a sense. The brain doesn’t usually reach full physical growth until about 24, yet we don’t have any laws which protect 23 year olds from making bad decisions.
In any case, this story is disgusting, but in no way a surprise. The culture in the US has become all about grabbing as much power and money as you can and damn the consequences. Courtesy and compassion are outdated notions, or practiced only by the weak. Follow my example and get out while you can.
about 9 months ago
The crazy thing is, the age of criminal responsibility in the USA is SEVEN YEARS OLD according to common law. That is so far below the lowest age of consent set anywhere it would be laughable, at least if children did not suffer because of it. By law, anyone over 11 *can* be charged as an ADULT.
Note that most of Europe and Japan, Korea and even China have the ages of consent and criminal liability equal in the mid teens (13-15). I wonder why the USA (and the UK and Australia also) can’t admit having them not equal is just hypocrisy of the dumbest order.
about 9 months ago
I admire the Finns, among whom the number of incarcerated juveniles can be counted on the fingers of one hand. On the other hand, they take thousands of children from their parents and place them in institutions, where their freedom is limited.
Douglas Hurd, former Home Secretary of the United Kingdom (Conservative) once said that prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse. I do wish governments would take note.
about 9 months ago
And yet there are still those here in the U.S. who believe that crap about the United States being the ‘Best country in the World!’. I want to puke every time I here one of those Jingoistic, faux patriots, mouth those words.
about 9 months ago
The USA is the best country in the world. End of story. The example set by the USA for the last 200 years is the inspiration and the archetype for free societies throughout the solar system. There were only absolute monarchies (albeit somewhat enlightened) and rigid caste societies before America – the freedoms and benefits you enjoy today are the direct result of America’s example and/or America’s protection. Do we have problems? Of course. Nothing is perfect. Nothing a lot more religion, a lot more guns, and a lot less liberalism can’t cure.
Bruce Tharp – keep up the good work with those kids.
about 9 months ago
“horselips” wrote:
‘The USA is the best country in the world. End of story.’
Of course it is! If “horselips” says it, then it must be so.
Am I the only person who feels that the USA is getting more attention on this site than it deserves? The global influence and economic power of the USA is in fact in rapid decline.
For what it’s worth, I am a great admirer of “horselips”. He is a master satirist.
about 9 months ago
Apparently Horselips has never been outside of the United States, or if Horselips has traveled, he had his mind securely fastened shut.
about 9 months ago
Thanks for your support. However, politically I am just to the left of center. I am not religious and I am not against gun control in America. Not yet anyway. Gun control works for the Brits and they are to be commended for that. America has become too violent as many know but ignore. Also I am not in favor of the privatization of our prison system. I fully expected an angry response to my comment.
about 9 months ago
Tell me you are joking. Please, tell me you are joking.
about 9 months ago
Oh yes, no one should follow the lead of liberal, gunless Norway – with its light sentences that see a pathetically low recidivism rate of 20% and an age of criminal responsibility set at a ridiculously high 15, so as not to thrust children into an abusive system.
Indeed the USA does provide inspiration to free societies throughout the star system by punishing children as young as 7 years old (6 in North Carolina – the very epicenter of America’s exceptionalism) and maintaining a deliciously large 60% recidivism rate. Think of all those lives saved by arresting children who spoke back to a teacher or had their shirts out. Brings a tear to your eye.
I mean who doesn’t salivate over a great load of indentured laborers who have limited rights and can be forced to work? I seem to recall the USA – in its capacity as inspiration “for free societies throughout the solar system” – fought a war within the last 200 years about access to *unfree* labour.
Yep, I agree America, keep up the good work with those kids. Remember, the 11 or 12 year old you jail today will be the adult who will make your military equipment for a pittance in the future! We won’t even need to go to Africa again!
about 9 months ago
The example set by the USA for the last 200 years is the inspiration and the archetype for free societies throughout the solar system.
Does that include people that were shipped over in their millions and were branded and sold as Cattle. Or their women who were raped to order and their offspring sold once the umbilical cord was cut, I bet the Mothers resisted wailing and gnashing of teeth, and shouted, “USA USA, Massa rape me again, Oh Lordy”.
God, (or whoever) give it a fucking break.
Stephen,.
about 9 months ago
I think “horselips” has a point. Consider how many people have wanted to emigrate to the USA during that period. It has been seen as a beacon of prosperity and freedom.
about 9 months ago
Well, consider how many night butterflies have been burnt by a lamp whose light attracted those poor creatures, and maybe you will consider your argument is not as impressive as it would seem at first. (but not totally invalid, of course, especially as men are not exactly butterflies)
about 9 months ago
Like moths to the flame…
But no, I believe the vast majority of immigrants to the US are happy with their decision. You don’t often hear of people going back to the old country.
Besides permanent immigrants there are also those who go to study at American institutions of higher learning. America must be doing something right!
about 9 months ago
In other words, the great white guilt and the abuse excuse.
about 9 months ago
The american State of police is notorious, and the military way they fasten and control the behavior of anyone, jailing kids for irrilevant things, is perhaps due to the money and power imperative of your land (even though capitalism is everywhere, but not militarism). I hope EU and the rest of the world will never assume such a terror.
about 9 months ago
One of the biggest faults of the “system” is the adjudication of so called teen sex offenders. Granted many of these are true rapists but in most of these cases the sex was consensual between an older boy and a younger girl or boy 2 or 3 years younger. Yet older girls often get involved with younger girls and boys but are not likely to be adjudicated as a sex offender. This is a very lucrative business for group home providers as their beds are always full of the easiest kids to work with. Someone on this site once referred to the “sex abuse industry.” Well this is a great example.
about 9 months ago
Well I ‘am Glad to see that not everone out there hates America. Therewas talk about some people shouldn’t have children,well that is true. I know that as a fact from personnel experience..Now no one has talked about China,and their one child rule. Looks like they have put a stop to China’s breeding. Now a lot of talk has been flowing about Goverment taking over the prisons. I worked for HUD for 37 years and if there is a way to fu*k up the works the Goverment well find it. As for ALAN.I hope you PUKE a lot,for I feel that America is the greats country on God’s green earth. I just don’t understand way so many on this blog dislike this country,just get out. I can understand if you believe something is wrong,but making Goverment the savior is clearly not the answer. As for you Brits. I was watching last night on T.V. the story of the bombing of Britain,and how your people stood up against it,but you could never have lasted if America did not get in to the War. Granted,there where a lot of Americans who said that the war in Europe was not our problem. Thanks to the Japanese that changed a lot of minds. I been to England,and found it very friendly,even tho I’am Irish. I been to France,and I well never go back. I found them to be rude and miserable people. I think the only reason they gave us the Statue of Liberty is because they had no other place to put it.@@horselips: we don’t always agree,but I have to say you came out loud and strong. Thank you for your words.
about 9 months ago
Everyone hates America? No. Everyone compains about the things America does wrong? Definitely. No one complains about the things Austria does wrong, we’re just not important enough, so feel honored by the comlaints!
“for I feel that America is the greats country on God’s green earth” – not possible. America does some things right, other things wrong. Greatest in some respect, worst in others. It’s just theoretically impossible. Saying it anyway is hubris and makes everyone else dislike America.
As for bringing up a war that was over before most of the people commenting here were born, that’s completely irrelevant. And the French are a very nice people, you must have done something wrong while you were there.
about 9 months ago
“Now a lot of talk has been flowing about Goverment (sic) taking over the prisons…and if there is a way to fu*k up the works the Goverment (sic) well (sic) find it.”
This is a pet peeve of mine, so allow me to vent.
A prison system cannot be run fairly if it is a private for profit system. As Randy said, the goal of a prison should be to not have any customers, and in a perfect society, prisons would be out of business.
Read about the Pennsylvania kids for cash scandal if you want to know how corrupting private profiteering and personal greed can become.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
Because many US prisons are private for profit businesses, the USA has by far the highest proportion of its citizens incarcerated of any country on earth. Yes, higher than places like Russia, Iran, and China.
Today the US incarceration rate is about 0.75%. Compare that to countries like Japan at 0.05%, and most of Europe at around 0.1- 0.2%, and it’s clear that the US system is not working.
Just on a basic economic level, prisoners are a major financial burden on the states, especially when you consider the lost economic activity of those people in prison. On average, it costs about $50K a year to keep someone in prison. For less money, you could send a kid to the finest prep school or University in the country.
US prisons were all pretty much government run until the mid 1980s, when the ridiculous “war on drugs” forced many states to go private. Since then the US incarceration rate has increased five fold from about 0.15% to its current level.
More on topic, the US is one of only two countries on earth that allow juveniles to be sentenced to life in prison without parole. The other is Somalia. Thankfully, the US Supreme Court has been moving slowly towards declaring this type of sentence unconstitutional, but there are still as many as 10,000 people serving life without parole for crimes committed before they were 18. To put that in perspective, consider that even Charles Manson has had 12 parole hearings, starting seven years after he was convicted.
I like to follow Dan Dailey’s blog Wandervogel Diary, to keep up to date with certain high profile juvenile incarceration cases. Dan is an attorney who fights on behalf of kids railroaded by the US justice system.
http://wandervogeldiary.wordpress.com/
about 9 months ago
The Amerikan strategy was to let Europe destroy each other and then pick up the pieces. You even had active nazi sypathisers in positions of influence e.g. Lindgergh and Kennedy.
By the time you got your sorry arses handed to you by the Japanese, the RAF had won the Battle of Britain and the bombing had lessened.That victory also removed the imminent danger of invasion.
Europe may have ended up under the nazi yoke for longer than it did but Great Britain would have survived without US help.
Your comment,
“for I feel that America is the greats country on God’s green earth. I just don’t understand way so many on this blog dislike this country,just get out.”
reveals a total lack of understanding of this blog, it is European in management and I would guess the bulk of members are non-septic.
As for Horselips’ comment, if you can’t see that is satire then you deserve all that pb fires at you.
about 9 months ago
@Penboy: I read that story about children in prison,as I’am sure everyone else did,and I found no mention of Religion being the cause. I did find that money was the number one factor in this problem. This problem that was reported that we have,I would like to know the facts that made this report. There is no author listed,just the photos of Steve Liss. Where did this so called information come from. I have found that there are many groups out there who would like nothing more then to make America look bad.@ whiterabbit: The slaves where going to England long before they came to America. England was an Empire of a lot more then the island they sit on. India was a nice little take over, They would have taken over China,but they where wise to England. Not all countrys are,or have been sueaky clean,as a lot of you seem to think. As the years went on the Irish where the low life,as far as England thought. Hell they didn.tget such a great deal here in America in the beginning. This place for Religious freedom didn’t like Catholics very much,but like I said we are not all so clean that we can throw stones at each other. Here is something from the New Testment. Let thee who has not sinned throw the first stone. Any Liberals that fit that bill?.
about 9 months ago
Michael:
“I read that story about children in prison,as I’am sure everyone else did,and I found no mention of Religion being the cause.”
That statement alone shows you don’t know jack shit about religion — any religion. Ever since the 1920s (at the very least), christianity in the USA has always been the bellweather of just what and how to give out punishment — no matter what, how and its extremity. And it’s the same today, but with the common religious deflection which they refer to as “laws.” Nevermind that 99% of these laws are thought up, voted on, and executed through religious fervor.
I know this because I was a part of this “corralling of young boys and teens” during my high school years in a Texas religious (southern baptist, no less) dormitory and school. It wasn’t nearly as bad as the above post, because it was the first or second stage (depending on how you look at it) from the courts and “exasperated” parents wishing to pawn their boys off to someone else “to instill discipline” into them. The school I was in would be considered the step just before sending the boys to a place like “boot camp,” jail or prison, depending on how the courts (then) would view their behavior.
Because I went to the place I did, and was “lucky enough” to not be sent to one of those [above], I did benefit not from any stupid ass religion, but from some of the adults who were fairly genuine enough to care for and within reason, properly teach us — both in school and in everyday life experiences. Fortunately for me, I went to this place at 14, almost 15 — already with my god-filter in place (which quite frankly, became incredibly overused). But, amazingly, even for the “born-again” crap pervasive throughout Texas during that time, most of them knew enough to actually teach facts (i.e., evolution) when not in their “non-denominational” (yeah, right) “chapel.” How did I “survive” all this “born-again” crap? Almost simple — I very quickly learned and understood that to get through this was to be a parrot (just like you, Michael) for them and tell them exactly what they wanted to hear and obviously, not the truth. Texas-based egos are, at the very least super-sized, and even more so when discussing anything to do with religion so when you “properly stoke” these egos, it’s amazing what can be offered to you — both physically and psychologically.
You rather amaze me by how you constantly ramble on and on (and on, ad nauseum) with your mumbo-jumbo of your “defense” of all things religious but continue to show you don’t have the least bit of real knowledge of what you’re attempting to talk about. You make one of the greatest parrots for religion — it’s obvious you don’t need to know how and why, but instead just parrot the years of brainwashing you seem to appreciate so much.
How do I know this? Simple. I am still brainwashed to a degree and was near totally so before my 13th year. I still to this day can’t decide which is worse — the sitting, kneeling, standing, sitting (etc) routines parroting verbatim from my hymnal (half in Latin until they removed it fairly entirely during the 1970s throughout most of USA) throughout the catholic mass ….. or ….. the constant drumming of “repent and be saved again to attain everlasting salvation!” from the baptists (southern, no less).
And throughout my young years and even through the military, the very next thing out of any of their mouths talking about society and discipline in it, was something about how god and/or what that stupid bible demands of us to be the “model citizen” (and young boy growing up, of course).
So, don’t tell me about how that article “didn’t talk about religion.” That makes you look even more stupid than you already do with your incessant rambling about nothing.
about 9 months ago
Michael, I agree with you on Slavery. It, not Prostitution, is the worlds oldest institution. After the discovery of the America’s and the wiping out of Native Americans, especially in the South by the Spaniards and Portuguese, Spain, Portugal, France and above all England, (Britain after 1707), went hunting Africans for slaves off what is now Liberia, Nigeria ect. In many cases these poor unfortunates were sold by either a different tribe, (casualties of war), or by their own chiefs for profit. Hell you didn’t need to be black, the Scot’s and the Irish were sold to the then American Colony’s. The Highland Scot to the Georgia Colony after the 1745 Jacobite Uprising, and the Irish to the USA Southern States after the 1799 United Irishmen Uprisings. So yes, I should acknowledge that virtually no Race or Country is Immune from the taint of Slavery.
Stephen.
about 9 months ago
This is uncommon knowledge to most Americans unfortunately.
about 9 months ago
@whiterabbit: Thank you for your repley,and you are right. The Irish got a bad deal at the time of the civil war. The only way the could be citizens of this country was to join the Army. Scotland gave in to the Brits,but Those stubborn Irish in the south of Ireland just kept on fighting for God knows how many years. They would say,if they are against the English,then where for them. This world can be a bitch at times,hell most of the time.
about 9 months ago
Scotland gave in to the Brits ???
You are forgiven because I suspect you are American and cannot be expected to have proper knowledge of British history when even British people get confused about it all – there’s just so much of the subject to understand.
Britain is not ‘Britain’ without Scotland – so you don’t even understand the basic geography of the islands let alone the history.
Meanwhile, there was the Norman conquest of 1066 that eventually led to King Edward being King of England . (The Normans were descendants of very powerful Vikings settled in Brittany and not indigenous French.)
King Alexander 3rd of Scotland died (1286) without an immediate successor and the throne passed to 4 year old Margaret Maid of Norway – Margaret died of food poisoning en-route to Scotland. King Edward of England (c1300) was asked by Scottish claimants and nobles to adjudicate as an independent and help the country select the next King. But King Edward, being Norman English, behaved treacherously and took advantage of the situation to virtually take over Scotland by force of arms whilst the country was leaderless.
Arise William Wallace (Hollywood’s Braveheart) — Wallace organised the fight-back and the job was completed by Bruce who then became King. The English were totally trashed. (1314)
Come forward to 1603 when Queen Elizabeth of England died childless. The next in line was King James VI of Scotland who became King James 1st of England.. Thus we had Union of Crowns and SCOTLAND TOOK OVER ENGLAND.
This is the King James of the ‘King James Bible’ for all the churchgoers.
But, English Barons were not specially happy with the setup when James’ son James VII came on to the throne – so we had a rebellion in England and King William of Orange plus his army turned up from Holland at the ‘invite’ of the English.
Why did this occur? Well here we have Catholic James behaving like a dickhead and the English (well done them) got hold of Protestant William to help them out.
Anything tainted by Vatican Rome turns to shit – Right?
Meanwhile, the Highland Scots (not the Lowlanders) in conjunction with very many English remained fully loyal to King James Stuart family – as they had sworn to do so! It’s all about if you are honourable or not. You choose….
So we had the start of the Jacobite (James) rebellions and they were absolutely not a Scottish / English thing at all. They were about loyalty to the true King James. House of Stuart. King of Scotland and England.
House of Orange won – which is probably a good thing as we would have been screwed over had we stayed in thrall to the Catholic church and control from Rome.
Additionally, SCOTLAND IS SAID TO BE THE ONLY European country that has not been invaded. The Romans had to build two walls across the country to keep themselves safe. LOL LOL
I don’t know if that is exactly correct but it sounds good to me…
Additionally, Scots are an Irish tribe that migrated from Ireland to the West of Scotland. The Scots are Irish in origin and the Irish are Celts. We are mostly Celts.
Celts are a tribe likely originating from Persia – or the Yanks would now say – IRAN! (And that is why we play bagpipes too..) Furthermore, ancient skeletal remains of ‘giants’ dressed in tartan with pictorial grave goods of people dancing ‘Scottish Style’ have been found in desert regions of Northern China. So – who are the Celts really?
I think recent DNA testing of communities indicates that the original Picts are still amongst us. Picts inhabited Scotland before the Celts. Only it was not known as Scotland then obviously.
Sorry Michael — you’re driving on Budweiser emotion. The history of Ireland, England and Scotland is complex, horrific at times, but not as you believe when you sing rebel songs in your local pseudo Irish pub.
about 9 months ago
I cannot add any more to what you said, Upikinonme. I should of course add that a hell of a lot of Highland Scots, fought on the side of Bonnie Prince Charlie, with a little French help, (with Irish volunteers). Unlike the Orange & Unionist twisted version of history would tell you, the vast majority of Highland troops that gathered around Charles Edward Stuart, were Protestants, (the Catholic Population of Scotland at that time being less than 2%). Many were, however, Episcopalians, although there were Presbyterians alongside the Bonnie Prince. It could even be said it was a Scottish HIGHLAND Civil War, as many Highland Scots fought against as for Jacobitism. And this nonsense about Scotland giving in to the Brits? (I assume you mean English)? Michael, this was done by a corrupt Parliament of 220 or so Individuals who voted 2 to 1 in favour of Union. For every Scottish MP at this time their were barely 4 voters. Yes, 4 voters, about 1000 in Scotland out of 1 million people. At the time England had 5 million. BTW Ireland had at that time 2 million of a population, yet up until 1707 Scotland kept her Independence, whilst Ireland lost hers centuries ago. The Irish Parliament, up until 1801 was a Parliament for Aristocratic Anglican Englishmen. Where no Irish Catholic, no matter how Rich or Powerful was allowed to sit, or indeed vote. (Well up until 1792). And by the Poynings Act of 1495, every little scrap of Legislation it did pass, was scrutinised, and if needed, vetoed by Westminster, not the Crown. I.E Westminster was it’s Daddy, not the Crown. Scottish Monarchs starting with James VI, who INHERITED, the English Crown in 1603, had more control over the English Parliament than he had over the Scottish Parliament both pre and post 1603. This was due to the greater Royal Prerogative, that English Monarchs had. Charles I who was born in 1600 in Scotland 3 years prior to his Father inheriting England, was just as Scottish in his accent, attitude ect. He actually abolished the English Parliament in 1629 and ruled without it’s consent until reconvening it in 1642, then tried to over rule again, leading to the English Civil War that year. A POWER HE DID NOT HAVE IN SCOTLAND. SO WHO OWNED WHO? Only after 1660 with a Minor adjustment in 1689, was the Crowns Prerogative curtailed. There is a greater than average chance, that after 2016, that the Union of Crowns and Parliaments of 1707, will be abolished, leading to the End of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, and leading to the Independence of Scotland. The Polls always say that the majority of Scots oppose Independence, but the same polls if read the same way show a majority of Scots opposed to the Union. It hovers about 35% in favour of the Union, 35% in favour of Independence, and about 30% unsure. With 26 months until the Referendum, (Saturday 18th October 2014), it’s anyone’s guess where that 30% will go?
Stephen.
about 9 months ago
Good Grief — how on earth do we start at the awful plight of American teens and end up at dissolving the Union…
LOL LOL LOL
about 9 months ago
I think if you asked most so called “British” people to explain the difference between Great Britain, the United Kingdom, and the British Isles, they wouldn’t have a clue. But this is waaay off topic.
about 9 months ago
Och wheesht now laddie!
about 9 months ago
@aawo: The only thing I did wrong was go to France. I have a friend who went also to England,and France,and he and his partner cut the French trip short,and went back to England. They just love the English and the way they treated them,but could not say that about the French.
about 9 months ago
@@Kinkynik: You are so right about America having some Nazi SYMPATHIZERS. The two you named where Charles LINDBERGH,and Joe Kennedy. Now your claim that Great Britian would have survived with out help from America is really not true. I have no idea what dream world your in or what history books your reading,but Britian stood fast for some time under great bombing raids,but your Prime Minister Winston Churchill,a great man even if he didn’t like the Irish, kept seeding letters to President Roosevelt asking for help. In 1940 Roosevelt started to send ships loaded with guns,ammo,tanks,etc. Many ships where sunk by the u-boats,and many lives lost. We then started to send our navy to gaurd these ships.which also had food. You Brits where running out of food. Yes, your Royal Air Force did a bang up job defending Britian. Some of those pilots where American pilots. The nazi raids stopped not just because of the Royal Air Force,they had to focus on Russia. Adolf’s head was so big that he open up fronts in all directions. I guess by your comment you really don’t want to recognize that America with it’s factories making tanks,planes,etc with no interference from German or Japanese bombers could produce what we did for England,and don’t forget what we did for Russia. When I wrote about the battle over Britian,I was not putting you down. Like I said earlier Britian stood fast,not like France,but they could only last just so long. That is why Churchill kept asking for our help. If you would watch that film about the air war over Britian,you would see that in 1939 only 39% of Americans thought we should get into,what was called Europes War. Hell we where protected by two oceans. What did we have to worry about. Films of the bombings over England changed a lot of minds,because in the 1940s they took a pole,and over 57% thought we should get into Europes war. Of course getting our Navy sunk by the Japanese kind of pushed us into that war.
about 9 months ago
@whiterabbit: What you said about the different tribes selling their captives,or their chiefs selling their own people for profit,is not said too much,here in America,because then you are called a racist,but you have a strong point that I have read long before it was politically incorrect to do so.
about 9 months ago
Michael, you are too ignorant to respond to.
I guess you went to school and sucked up all that John Wayne and Audi Murphy won the war on their own, shit.
One note Hitler turned on Russia because he knew he wasn’t going to cross the Channel.
Also I never claimed the help of the USA wasn’t handy but Sir Winston Churchill knew Europe couldn’t be liberated without it.
NB, oh a couple of typo’s and you desperately fall on them. btw in ENGLISH, it’s sympathisers, condescending seeyounexttuesday !
Your ignorant faux Irish patriotism also reveals you to be a total bell-end. I bet you contibuted to the boyos until the Twin Towers fell and suddenly supporting terrorists wasn’t fashionable.
about 9 months ago
@ kinkynik: If I’am so fucken ignorant,then why make a response. John Wayne was not in the war. He tried to get into the Navel Academy,but failed.That was in 1924.He made movies through out 1940-1946. Now Audie Murphy was a hero,but he didn’t win the war on his own. Thanks for your correction,but you are wrong. As in the American Heritage Dictionary,and Webster’s Dictionary,the word sympathisers is incorrect. It is spelled SYMPATHIZER. I don’t know why you had to bring up John Wayne,or Audi Murphy and display your dislike for our American folk heros. Wayne in the movies,and Murphy on the battle ground. You said Hitler wasn’t going to cross the Channel. His planes where doing just that ever night. I just want to say that I spoke with respect about Sir Winston Churchill,given the fact that he was very helpful in trying to defeat the Irish in the 1920′s and 1930′s. I respected him because he was the GLUE that kept England together. If I can have respect for your heros,at least show some for ours. P.S. I never gave money to the I.R.A. because I was taught to take care of my house,before trying to take care of some bodies else house,Plus I had my own problems at that time.
about 9 months ago
I see everything’s become all an american and british affair. Go on, go on.
about 9 months ago
Check here to find the privately operated prisons in the UK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prisons_in_the_United_Kingdom
I don’t find the privatisation of prisons disgusting at all, it’s improperly imprisoning ANYONE that is disgusting.
Private companies and the government should be allowed to extract work from the incarcerated, voluntarily, paying them pennies a day. They would offer comforts and luxuries at vastly subsidised prices, this gives the prisoners the chance to work for a nicer life but prevents them from being able to afford drugs smuggled into the prison, and it helps pay for their keep.
about 9 months ago
@Penboy: I can see why you are so full of hate,because if I had to deal with the Catholic religion on one hand,and the Southern Baptist religion on the other hand I most likely would have ended up like you. I had some periods of trouble in my childhood,but nothing like your’s. As for the up,and down,and sitting during the Latin Mass,you should see it now. You get a good workout now with the English Mass. You have compared me to a parrot. A parrot is a bright-colored tropical bird. I’am neither colorful,or a tropical bird. You have called me an idiot so may times,that I guess I’am not bright,in your eyes. That’s ok.I’ll say a pray for you tonight as I’am cleaning my guns.
about 9 months ago
If you put another go on, on to the end of go on, go on, you would be referring to Mrs Doyle, the housekeeper of Father’s Jack Hackett, Ted Crilley and Dougal McGuire from the Craggy Island Parochial House. ;-) Usually with a big vat of Tea and some Ferrerro Roche’s piled up in a big Pyramid.
Stephen.
about 9 months ago
Amazing, intellectual, and I am so ignorant about… ;-) I was just doing ironic and innocent spam… :-)
about 9 months ago
It’s an Irish comedy set on a fictional Irish Island called Craggy Island. British and Irish Audiences watched this in the late 1990′s and it’s still doing re-runs on TV. It involves a Parochial (Priest) House that consists of a sex mad old alcoholic in his 70′s, Father Jack Hackett, a Chain Smoking Priest in his late 40′s Father Ted Crilley, (The series is called Father Ted, after him). and a young simple priest fresh out of the seminary called Father Dougal McGuire. They are bossed about by their house keeper, Mrs Doyle, who cleans, cooks, but above all makes Gallons of Tea, every single hour of the day. Her catchphrase when someone refuses the tea, is to put on a silly expression, shove the cup of tea, in their face, and say, “Go on, go on. go on”, in a lyrical Irish accent. It rips the piss totally off the Catholic Church. Look for it on Youtube. Father Ted. Enjoy.
Stephen.
about 9 months ago
Thank you, Stephen, I’ll watch.
Marco.
about 9 months ago
Can I get a facebook safe version of this? Something I can post to friends ‘who dont know im gay’. This would be fkn awesome but I just cant show to any of my friends.
PLZ & THX!
JJR
about 9 months ago
Not sure if this will do since there’s still a link to milkboys in it:
http://www.instapaper.com/read/313685285
about 9 months ago
umm… Is that the right link? Its asking for login/pass. :)
about 9 months ago
Oh, sorry, it seems to be account-bound then :/