Periodical Political Post *145

The Blame Game Edition

  

68 thoughts on “Periodical Political Post *145”

  1. Re:
    ‘says US sociologist’

    How can there be such a person as a Christian Sociologist?
    Christianity is not compatible with science and truth.

    He’s just another delusional dickhead mouthing off.

  2. of corse this is still proving that the major issue is the church’s of Christianity

  3. re: Pastor: Schools teaching how to be a homo caused shooting

    ” Morris said the ‘humanism’ taught in schools instilled the Sandy Hook gunman with the belief he was God and could ‘just go blow away anybody he wants’. ‘I want to tell you what evolution teaches, here’s the bottom line, that you’re an animal. That’s what it teaches. So, you’re an animal, you can act like an animal. Amen,’ Morris said. ”

    No, you religious idiot, that’s not what Humanism is/defined. In fact, it’s the total opposite douchewad:

    Humanism is a group of philosophies and ethical perspectives which emphasize the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers individual thought and evidence (rationalism, empiricism), over established doctrine or faith (fideism).

    So, yes, I most definitely want Humanism taught in schools — actual education, and not your god bullshit.

    “So, you’re an animal, you can act like an animal. Amen,’ Morris said.”

    Duh, yeah, all of us are …. have you looked in a mirror lately? So, you prefer to think of humans as …. what, exactly, if not animals (while you bitch fuck your wife doggie style …… or is that “your human-style”)?

    “He added: ‘Well, we can teach you about sex, we can teach you how to rebel against your parents, we can teach you how to be a homo!”

    I would hope the schools do teach about correct and factual sex, but unless I’m still in the Neanderthal age, I’m pretty damn sure growing children don’t need to be “taught” the other two things (unless you’re a “god-fearing” straight and desperately want to learn something new, in which case, just follow your animal instincts).

    And, lastly, because at least his family appear to be (have been) devout catholics, I’d presume he was as well. So, it appears that your [his] ‘god’ had more to do with the shooting than anything else, like Evolution or homosexuality.

    1. Thanks for your strong defense of humanism. In the face of all the irrational hatred and anti-science religious insanity it’s good to know that other humanists are around.

  4. Each of these stories in the news round up are indicative of the right wing media in the United States, as well as other countries. And shame on those who try to use their God as punishment for innocent children. They are just sick.

  5. PLEASE do not believe that these religious wackos speak for 99% of the USA. Sexual orientation has no place in this debate about gun laws. I live near a very rural lake, in Texas. Unfortunately, my county is the highest in the state for wild animals with rabies. If one sees a skunk or raccoon during the day time, it is assumed rabid, & must be destroyed to protect other wildlife. I have never found it necessary to buy an AR-15 to control rabid animals. Those guns exist ONLY to kill people. There is NO other reason to own an attack rifle.I use a single shot.410 shot gun that my grandmother bought in 1912, I have happily registered any/all guns that I own. Some of there people & their outrageous statements present a convincing argument for “retroactive abortion.”

    1. “PLEASE do not believe that these religious wackos speak for 99% of the USA.”

      Puh-lease! Would you stop using that tired excuse just to hide your own apathy?

      Please, tell everyone here how many times you’ve stood up in the middle of some sermon and “demanded” the priest/pastor/preacher (whatever) stop using his fucking, tired old “reasons” for being against same-sex marriage, homosexuality being a “choice,” or other bullshit “reasons” he can make up to [his] half-asleep congregation? Have you? Anytime? I’m guessing NO, NONE.

      And so it’s all of you who “dutifully listen” to these outrageous bullshit “sermons” that don’t stand up or in anyway go against the local pulpit idiot that feed all these lies. Especially during elections — particularly this last Presidential Election. Over 75% of these idiot religious churches had some pulpit idiot speak out against Obama in some way and therefore attempting to influence “his flock” to vote for the right — Romney, and at the same time violating the laws on the books making any such “influence” ILLEGAL and should have forfeited all their tax benefits. But, because our partisan IRS is just as apathetic, they simply ignored and continue to ignore these illegalities.

      You may come back and try to “convince me/us” that ‘your church’ didn’t do any of that. To which I will pre-answer that as BULLSHIT. You religious people come onto blogs such as this one or others and “announce how sympathetic you are” regarding gay [that's CIVIL] rights, but won’t stand up in your church because it’s too “embarrassing,” or “I’ll be ostracized in some way by the congregation, and of course, you don’t want to show your own children the true meaning of standing up for civil rights.

      Yeah, these idiots do speak for a hefty majority if not “99%” because of your own apathy. And they fucking well know it.

      1. AMEN! TESTIFY!

        But seriously,I fully agree with you.Those who stay silent in the face of evil are just as guilty as those committing the evils.Especially when they profess devotion to organizations which are responsible for said evils.

  6. Usually I like quoting the article that I feel are worth commenting upon. But, this time, the entire collection of news articles is stunning in the amount of idiocy, hatred and bigotry that could be found in each of them.

    @Dragonmaster. : I don’t believe it’s only christianity that is at fault here. The problem is that this collection of links didn’t take into account the same kind of activity from other religions. Still, you are right as to how a supposed religion of love is so hell bent on murder of anything that it perceives as evil. The only thing missing is the burning at the stake and if things keep going the way they are now expect one in our neighborhood in the very near future.

    As for Wesboro I simply can’t understand how they can be still be accepted as a legal church.

    Josh/Milkboys. It would be fun to see, as a followup, the same kind of collection of articles as this one but from a variety of of other religions.

    There is so much more I could say but, for now, I’ll sit back and wait for Michael’s spin. :P

    1. The problem is that other religions are either less hateful or just more careful with their PR. Ever heard of a Buddhist leader blaming people’s love life for the end of the world? Me neither ;) But if you send in some articles about other religious leaders spreading the same kind hate I’ll post them.

  7. So, the Catholic clerics worry about gay marriage, and Protestant and Baptist clerics blame homosexuality for the mental illnesses that grip homicidal mass murderers. The NRA’s Wayne LaPierre jumped the shark coming down on video games. Video games?

    We are living in a full-blown Age Of Stupid.

    BTW, the Anti Spam Check arithmetic questions are getting harder – sometimes requiring double digit answers. Gimme a break.

    1. BTW, the Anti Spam Check arithmetic questions are getting harder – sometimes requiring double digit answers.

      Tell me about it.The last anti-spam checker made me solve for X.

  8. I cannot believe that religion would use the shooting as a scapegoat for their homophobia. What a nice place religion carves the world out to be.

  9. “I cannot believe that religion would use the shooting as a scapegoat for their homophobia.”

    Religion will use anything it can to use against anything to do with the gay “lifestyle” (and now, particularly same-sex marriage). For them, the “end” is justified by any fucking means they can use, true or not. If they run out of actual facts, or (as in most cases where they think they’re “dumbing down” to their congregations or public) they will just make something up and lie through their teeth such as every one of those articles above (perfect proof). And, those articles just show how brainwashed you would have to be or just completely stupid to even begin to believe any of that crap they’re trying say.

    The religious feel they “have to” do/say these incredibly stupid things — they are so fucking desperate right now primarily because of the Internet. Before, they just relied on their lying and stupid sermons to “teach” their dumb lambs. But, drat! As luck would have it (NOT!), the general population (in the Western world) steadily became more intelligent and started seeing through their lies and stupidity. And with the Internet showing more people the true ways of nature and the world, it’s making the desperate even more so against homosexuality.

    As long as gay people can’t biologically procreate, legally adopt children as a couple or [heaven forbid! /pun intended] as legally married couple, they think they have the “upper hand.” But, they’re losing that too, steadily and slowly, but it’s happening. For every single church/religion, without those snotty, crying and very young children being dragged into their churches so they can act as the ultimate babysitter (while steadily, yet forcefully indoctrinating those little snots) and their already brainwashed parent(s) can just “sit back and relax” while the churches do their deed. And the parents just keep cha-ching their 10% salaries (usually more), gleefully reaping “morally straight” minis of themselves.

    And, we go ’round and ’round through the next generation.

    1. Penboy, you really should learn to let your feelings out! :P

      On a more serious note I decided not to post in the following thread.

      http://milkboys.org/article/threnody/

      Let;s be honest. I have the same raging anger that Penboy has. What doesn’t help is when I see someone say “it will get better”. Guess what. Instead of being something that pushes the people to take action so it can become true it’s now the same as someone mouthing a prayer saying god will provide and not doing a damn thing meanwhile to provide what ever the hell is needed. I could say that I hope that 2013 will see less dead kids but I know damn well we will see if not more we will see the same number as 2012. If things were really getting better we would see Westboro shut down and all those bastards thrown out of the town they live in. But they aren’t. If things were getting better we would see religious leaders charged with being responsible for instigating the murdering of kids by proxies. At least, sexually abusing kids left them alive. Now they go for the kill.

      @Josh. I’ll see what I can find when it comes to news articles. A thing did come to my mind. Christianity and islam both have the same roots as to where those religions came from. And both share the same hatred of gays. Just food for thought.

      1. “Same as someone mouthing a prayer saying God will provide.” I think you are right.

      2. Since you and many others don’t get that “It’s getting better” idea – it is not about the world getting better but the situation of the child/teenager the campaign is directed to. The idea is not to stall any other kind of action but to explain to little dumb human beings, that they shouldn’t kill themselfs yet, since the world is much bigger than their tiny heads can grasp.

        The again – maybe the world would be better off with the weakest of the fags gone so the remaining are more fit to pick up the fight. Escalation might speed up the events a bit and some weak fellows might be worth more for the gay community dead than alive.

    2. As always I enjoy and support your comments on religion. As a recovering Southern Baptist I wish you a very Merry Christmas. For me, Christmas is all about the MAGIC of Santa, Christmas trees, happy faces of kids opening presents and eggnog (with brandy for me),

  10. Whenever I log on to Milkboys I hear background noise of someone typing on a keyboard. does anyone else hear this? It has been going on all day for me.

    1. Its probably Josh working hard in the background to make Milkboys even better for you.

        1. On the right side of this page I see the lists of blogs and sites have been replaced with some kind of code inscription that perhaps a computer geek or Josh would understand. Guess I will blame this on the Google crash and/or GAWD’s wrath against queers.

          1. Sounds as if you are being watched. That and the typing sounds you hear are not a good sign.

            1. Big Brother? I really cannot think of any incentive for anyone to monitor my activities. But then there is the Westboro Baptist Church. Gawd works in mysterious ways.

            2. In America, an old geezer gawking at kids is plenty of incentive, sorry to say.

  11. Westboro Baptist Church is one crazy church. Any body that believes that going to funerals to provoke hate is completely out of their heads. They are drive-in with nothing but hate. Thank God there are not to many of them. Just that they make the media front lines. I’ve been to church each Sunday and have heard priest give his sermon on the Sandy Hook tragedy and not once did any of the priest say it was because of gay marraige,gay rights or gay anything. There are those who well blame the Gay community or even blame God for what ever tragedy that comes along. 30 minutes after this tragedy the anti-gun people where blaming the pro-gun people. I have a friend who goes to this Episcopal church in center city with his partner and their minister talked about this tragedy but no blame was laid on the gay community, if so Mike and his partner would have spoke up and walked out. As for the Catholic church,they never spoke out against Obama in my Parish, which i was not happy about. Penboy talks about the churchs speaking out against Obama, but how all those African-American churchs speaking for Obama. They have been pushing politics here in Philly since we had the first black mayor. That was Mayor Good. I would guess that Penboy would want the IRS to investigate these churchs also. Penboy says that it’s wrong that Religious organizations should pay taxes. Well I know that my parrish pays out over 17,000 dollars in property taxes, because they send a yearly letter out on how much money goes out and how much comes in. I believe the only difference between that Westboro church and Penboy is that one says they believe in God and the other says he doesn’t believe in a god. @ Old Dan. It’s easy to understand how a some are so hell bent on killing what they refuse to understand. That’s where the human factor comes in and also how we are raised. Some folks take the old testament word for word. I see it as a book about a very angry god. From what I know about the New Testament it is about a very merciful God. You must also remember that being Catholic i don’t really read the bible that much. They taught use with the catechism. As for the legality of that Wesboro church, that is a good question of which I have no answer. With them saying what they say it comes under FREE SPEECH. There are times that i don’t hold with this but you can’t just stop someone from speaking because you don’t like what is being said. Believe it or not that’s what makes this land so great.

  12. The recent, horrific tragedy in Connecticut has little to do with the access of legal weapons, ammo, or religious connotations. But, it has everything to do with geek/nerds kids that slip through the cracks without any positive role models or adult mentors. These kids form their own values from thousands of hrs on PC’s and with video games. MOST of the kids growing up these day on PC’s and video games will NOT be capable of committing such atrocities. But even if you figure one in fifty thousand, we have an extreme problem. Single parent kids are the most at risk, especially if they are left to their own devices most of the time. If Adam had had a Big Brother or some positive adult mentor, this incident probably would not have happened. So instead of being shocked, banning guns and overreacting about religious indoctrination, invest back in youth and become a mentor for kids at risk.

  13. The recent, horrific tragedy in Connecticut has little to do with the access of legal weapons, ammo, or religious connotations. But, it has everything to do with geek/nerds kids that slip through the cracks without any positive role models or adult mentors. These kids form their own values from thousands of hrs on PC’s and with video games. MOST of the kids growing up these day on PC’s and video games will NOT be capable of committing such atrocities. But even if you figure one in fifty thousand, we have an extreme problem. Single parent kids are the most at risk, especially if they are left to their own devices most of the time. If Adam had had a Big Brother or some positive adult mentor, this incident probably would not have happened. So instead of being shocked, banning guns and overreacting about religious indoctrination, invest back in youth and become a mentor for kids at risk.

    Adam was the ‘perfect storm';gun possessing mother with no security on the guns, Aspergers Syndrome and completely left alone to his own devices.

  14. “The recent, horrific tragedy in Connecticut has little to do with the access of legal weapons, ammo, or religious connotations.”

    In my view, that is an incredibly ignorant statement made for the only purpose of presenting your also incredibly flimsy “facts.” That tragedy had everything to do with those ‘points’. Without access to his mother’s legal weapons, her legal ammo and, yes, most definitely (deeply buried) religious connotations. It’s no “coincidence that most of the 2nd Amendment nutcases for the purchases of assault weapons, are also [usually] very religious. That’s not conjecture, it’s fact.

    These religious nutcases keep clamoring over the same two phrases and continually get it wrong. They keep insisting that the 1st Amendment’s text of: “… or prohibiting the free exercise thereof [religion] …” allows them full freedoms to do as they please with their religion in any public way they can “get away with”. And the 2nd Amendment’s text of: “… the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” also “allows” them full freedoms to have as many guns — including assault types — as they please.

    They couldn’t be further from the truth and facts of this document. Why? Because of the English language and all [legal] documents it entails. We (English speaking and reading as well as most other Western societies) read, write and interpret all documents and writings from first: top to bottom and left to right — in that specific order.

    Let’s see now. Even by 6th grade level, let’s read those same two Amendments:
    First: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, …” and then,
    Second: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, …”

    Top to bottom, left to right ….. it can’t get much plainer than that.

    Plain and simple, but those who prefer to read them their way only and have the money to pay for “high-powered sharks,” not to forget the equally important bribery of the entire justice system of this country with their carefully worded and doled-out “donations” to the elections of those very “officials.” And it’s been going on like that for well over 150 years (if not more).

    Assault weapons have nothing to do with any “well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State” — not if they are purchased by random citizens in totally different States and the owners themselves admit to buying them for “hunting, self-protection [NOT a "free State"].

    “But, it has everything to do with geek/nerds kids that slip through the cracks without any positive role models or adult mentors.”

    Even more bullshit in my opinion. The primary ‘reason’ so many mighty be considered ‘geeks’ is because to learn and carry out (i.e., pay for) some of these situations, they need to understand and pick out the details and, as well, learn the methods of pay for these supplies and methods as well as complete them. Millions of kids from ages 6 and up play video games (“shoot them up” types) and, btw, many are also considered ‘geeks’, but they don’t do things like Newtown.

    When I was growing up, we [boys] all ‘played cops & robbers’, ‘cowboys & indians’, ‘1 army against another army’, etc. Many of us turned out as ‘geeks’ [me, for one] but still learned and understood right from wrong with regard to weapons and killing (additionally, I was in combat during my military stint as well).

    No, it’s more “simple” and “complex” as well. Mental problems, absolutely. Just being around “shoot-em-up” games when young, not generally.

    “If Adam had had a Big Brother or some positive adult mentor, this incident probably would not have happened.”

    He did have a big [older] brother, Ryan Lanza. How positive of a ‘mentor’ remains to be seen.

    “So instead of being shocked, banning guns and overreacting about religious indoctrination, …”

    Re: religious indoctrination — I don’t feel it’s over-reacting at all, maybe even under-reacting and I just explained why (one very logical reason, anyway) above. But as long as this country bows to the idiot religious, we’ll never get to the bottom of many of our societal ills.

    1. Puff Adder, you can’t see or reason empirically, because you’re so vehemently against religion…it permeates everything you write in here. Are you saying this tragedy couldn’t have been prevented even if his dumbass mother had the guns & ammo locked up in a secure safe?? If she gave a damn, she would have been trying to prevent people like you, from totally disarming America with false claims.

      And apparently, you know no actual assault weapon owners, because while some could be religious ‘nut cases’, most are not. Now if you had used the term ‘anarchist-like’, you might have made some points.

      The old bother Ryan as the adult mentor…from the same situation, really…that’s your adult role model example? No evidence yet that he had ANY positive influence in Adam’s life. For all we know, they might have been enemies or at the very least, completely estranged.

      Oh yeah, let’s see what else you fudged while you were seeing red…you skipped over the fact that I said one in fifty thousand nerds/geeks would be capable of such a thing, no matter how many violent video games were involved & loner PC time. Adam was the ‘perfect storm’ in which all these things congealed together to form a monster young adult capable of multiple homicides. To anyone who knows young adults, when Adam was in public he probably had visible red arrows pointing in his direction, if anyone had cared. Now after the fact, everyone cares…amazing, isn’t it? As the facts unravel, you’re going to see that Adam’s mother was domineering, probably hated most males and left Adam alone basically to his own devices of ethic/moral construction.

      You obviously don’t work with kids at risk or see the need for positive adult role models. Probably just as well though.

      1. Unreal:
        “Puff Adder, you can’t see or reason empirically, because you’re so vehemently against religion…it permeates everything you write in here. Are you saying this tragedy couldn’t have been prevented even if his dumbass mother had the guns & ammo locked up in a secure safe?? If she gave a damn, she would have been trying to prevent people like you, from totally disarming America with false claims.”

        You just couldn’t wait to call me your pet name, could you? The very first words show you really carry a grudge — for being proven wrong and questioning what you claimed (Have you forgotten that this is the Internet, after all?). It shows you would rather attack me and not my words which is I did to you — it was your content only.(Read again, you obviously need the practice.)

        Your words say it all, or in your case, continue to not understand what you read. I see reason just fine, thank you and I usually post with that same reasoning — very empirically, I might add. And as far as religion is concerned, I also see the writing on the wall. Why is it that most (not all, I know) mass shooters tend to come from very religious families and/or are very religious themselves? It’s no “coincidence.”

        But, you’re more interested in trying to put me down, personally, just as you did over a year ago — it really must have been boiling up inside you, huh?

        As an example of just that:
        “The old bother Ryan as the adult mentor…from the same situation, really…that’s your adult role model example?”

        I only stated he was his older brother, not “old” and nowhere did I state that he was an “adult” or that he was, definitely, “my adult role model example.” You hate me so much that you’re reduced to putting “words in my mouth” where there were none.

        And then you went into your rant of blaming either all the “shoot-em-up” video games and loner children (having? and/or alone, being on a computer) for “1 in 50k nerds/geeks” would turn out to be a pathological or serial killer. And if that didn’t sound “scientific” enough, you brought out the ‘big gun’ from the last decade — ‘perfect storm’ to attempt to “prove” your point — which was, what, exactly?
        .
        .
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        And, your last accusation, “You obviously don’t work with kids at risk or see the need for positive adult role models. Probably just as well though.”

        After reading so much that you have written, and with the above “logic” you use, I seriously question either: 1) that you do in fact work with teenage boys to “help them,” or 2) if you do, in fact, why you haven’t been fired for psychologically abusing these said boys a lot earlier on? Because you clearly don’t truly listen to what these boys may try to tell you (if they are so inclined) or how to “read them” by their expressions and body language when they could be rather obviously, inquisitive and/or troubled and desperately need some “peer quality” help and in need of a true mentor/friend.

        I have lived, worked, traveled through, and played in our South in several different areas and for many years. And when I was younger, I went to their churches. If not for my reasonably “masculine” appearance and ways, I would have been even more ridiculed and bullied by these same religious idiots. Because I experienced so much, I know the signs of what religions are doing — both actively and subliminally. I call it as I see it. And if you would read my post further up, you would see that I just called out what is a huge problem in America — the near total apathy regarding religion, through the parents to the churches and the silent congregations that idly sit and absorb all that bullshit — and that they carry those “principles” into nearly every aspect of their lives. And that includes which guns they want and how they use them.

        Why is it that at least 98% of all material posted in favor of these guns and religion all come from “conservative,” right-wing and Republican types of people and organizations, such as FOX News? And that primarily from the “left” are materials that want to curb the buying and using of these types of weapons and at least keeping religion out of our government and keeping it private within the individual? Answer that with some intelligence, please.

        1. Wow…your empirical “logic” is so all over the place…again and I wouldn’t know where to start, other than you must always be ‘correct’ in all things. I have no longtime grudge against you, as I’ve always thought you were an obsequious ass. Nothing has changed, except we weren’t supposed to respond to each others postings and you crossed the line. Your whole charge against me as a mentor makes absolutely no sense and just the lunatic ramblings of a wannabe, teen boy ‘champion’.

          As far as brother Ryan, I was talking about adult mentors as in the Big Brother organization. You foolishly added that he had an older brother (possibly mentor), Ryan. They’re hardly the same thing and you should know that.

          Most of here in the US know the evils of religious indoctrination and growing up queer. But no matter how much you try to make it fit, Adam’s case as of yet, has little or nothing to do with religious extremism forced upon him. You’re just trying to make it fit in your own inevitable, cranky hysterical way. And since you don’t debate by points, it makes no sense to continue. You made it personal by answering my post with the words “incredibly ignorant” in the first sentence. Josh is just going to shut the two of us down, so continuing this is moot.

        2. Penboy, I’m glad that I’m not the only one that can’t stand the likes of hypocrites like Real1.

    2. Penboy, the AR 15 is NOT an assault weapon depending on who you ask. The last people to ask for an answer are the medias and politicians. It is a semi automatic. Not a full automatic that would certainly make it a true assault rifle. Anyway here is a link to help you decide what the damn thing is.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

      Personally, you could own a bazooka or a Sherman tank if you want to. All that I as for that privilege is that you know how to use it properly. But I also ask that you take ALL the proper safety precautions to prevent those weapons from being stolen.

      99% of the media missed the fact that the guns he used were legally acquired by the mother. Of even more importance, Adam was denied the right to buy a weapon after a background check was run on hi. The system in place properly worked! The only thing that was proven is that even in a state with some of the strictest laws he was able to get guns. If not from his mom, sooner or later he would have found an other way, legal or not.

      All the laws in the world will never prevent someone from getting a weapon. Banning is not the solution. Also, that school, then Columbine and also the theater shooting all took place in gun free zones. Did you know that a few days before what Adam did someone went into a shopping mall wanting to shoot people and ended up running away when people pointed their own guns at him? It’s an open carry zone. So….

      Before you ask, I hate guns. But I hate even more people forced to be defenseless.

      1. Old Dan:
        “Penboy, the AR 15 is NOT an assault weapon depending on who you ask. … It is a semi automatic. Not a full automatic that would certainly make it a true assault rifle.”

        Nowhere did I state that an AR-15 is an assault weapon. I had and used an M-16 automatic when I was in the Military and combat as well. I’m aware what the AR-15 and Bushmaster rifles are — just the semi-automatic version of the M-16 with other very minor changes, mostly for style.

        My references to assault weapons are these gun nuts we have over here who feel they “need” a fully automatic weapon (with multiple magazines that hold as many as possible) just to do their “hunting.” Hunting of what, exactly? Those pesky squirrels as they quickly climb the trees? Some buck deer who is usually standing still when they fire their 10-20 shots (just to make sure they really kill it — never mind the amount of lead inside them to never want to actually eat their kills)? Really. Fully automatic weapons are designed and used for killing humans — not helpless animals that can only rely on their running speed to hopefully save their lives.

        I’d have more sympathy for some of these people if I knew they actually killed, skinned and cleaned the animal on the spot and knew they (their families) were eating them for survival (or some actual necessity), and not just some trophy head with antlers/horns on the wall to show “what a sportsman they are” regaling their activities over brandy and cigars (and let’s not forget their showing off these weapons used to slaughter these animals). And with assault-type weapons, it’s slaughter, not any “sport.”
        .
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        Back to where we were ….. “99% of the media missed the fact that the guns he used were legally acquired by the mother. Of even more importance, Adam was denied the right to buy a weapon after a background check was run on hi. The system in place properly worked!”

        First, I clearly stated the guns were legal and his mother’s. And, yes, Adam was denied to purchase the guns in a store. Then you said, the system worked. Sorry, but, no, it didn’t work fully. What is left out was the Mother’s responsibility to her own guns and having a mentally ill child in her household. And this goes back much further since she knew her son didn’t have a ‘full deck of cards’. To even have guns of that type of household with a disturbed young man and potential powder keg, is totally irresponsible of her as a mother and adult in charge of children. And that’s where the system failed.

        The “system” isn’t just the “retail” part of it — the suppliers, gun dealers and the literal law. A proper system also includes the full responsibility of the ownership of the guns — not just the actual owner, but also the family and environment the guns are in. And, in this case, is where the system failed miserably.

        And, I feel strongly that if the mother did not have these guns or they were locked up considerably more securely, then Adam would not have done what he did. In my view, he did this because the guns were available and were not secured. Also, (and this is crucial), he was literally taught how to use them and allowed to practice with them — a young man with a mental disorder. That’s in no way a “proper system in place.” I feel his mother is every bit as responsible for that killing as Adam was and frankly, I’m glad such an irresponsible woman is no longer around.

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        .

        “All the laws in the world will never prevent someone from getting a weapon. Banning is not the solution.”

        Because of America’s history and culture of guns, I know all the laws won’t prevent all of it. But that’s not to say we shouldn’t try, if not for the sake of young children and teens — at least before they have graduated from school. Banning might not be the final solution, but it will go a long way in preventing mass killings such as this one. Again, in this case, a mother bought the guns, taught him, allowed him to practice, and left them unsecured. If the guns had been illegal, I seriously doubt the mother would have purchased them in the first place.

        .
        .

        “Before you ask, I hate guns. But I hate even more people forced to be defenseless.”

        People won’t need to defend themselves with guns if guns weren’t in the hands of “the others.” It’s not easy, but we need to begin to make our country more safe without guns. Unfortunately, I don’t have all the answers and no one does, really (right now anyway).

  15. I just LOVE how people blame this and that for the shooting instead of laying the blame where it belongs, solely on the SHOOTER and his parents. He was getting psychological help while in school, and when he was out, his parents didn’t seem to care enough to continue to get him mental help for his personality disorders.


  16. Michael:

    I believe the only difference between that Westboro church and Penboy is that one says they believe in God and the other says he doesn’t believe in a god.

    You have no idea how offended I am by what you just said about Penboy. Even if it was someone else comparing you to the Westboro church I would still be as offended. What I’m saying is that I demand that you retract that comment and apologize to Penboy. I’m doing so knowing full well he doesn’t need me to defend himself. It’s just that you know how low that shot was especially since you know what that supposed church stands for.


    Michael:

    @ Old Dan. It’s easy to………. land so great.

    That part that I’ve shortened for the sake of clarity makes me wonder in what world you live in. When you thanked god that there were only a few nut cases like Westboro you conveniently omitted all the religious leaders that are busy spewing the same virulent poison on their sheeples, thus creating even more nut cases. There have been enough articles proving my point that make it quite unnecessary to show you those articles. Just go through all the political posts. As for free speech, when it leaves a trail of blood as we can see in the above mentioned articles, this is abusing that right because from that moment on it is used exactly the same way a gun or knife is, no matter what religion is involved.

  17. @ Old Dan: You wish me to apologize to penboy. That well happen when Penboy apologizes for the way he continues to blasphemes all Religions and faults them for all the evils that go on in this world. Yes,this mother had legal guns that where not locked up as they should have been. She had a child that was disturb and should have never been near the guns. As you can see if you look at the complete story,the mother was not all there as was her son. Religion had nothing to do with it. This women life was based on survival. She stockpiled food and water and her guns where to protect the same. She was given 300,000 dollars by her ex-husband so she could live in high comfort, but yet she choose to live a life in fear. Who knows but that the end of the world on Dec 21st could have push her and her boy over the edge. If you would take the time to understand my comment you would see that there are times that I disagree with things said in free speech such as ” What Westboro has to say ” That I pure hate and nothing more. I or any sane person would not belong to a church that preaches this hate. These people out and out hate gay folks. They well blame any tragedy that happens on the gay community. Now as for Penboy he blames any tragedy {outside of bad weather] on religion. I guess you would call St Judes Hospital a place of Idiots, Mother Theresa was also an Idiot. Yea,all those people she helped she also brainwashed. There are many very good religious orders that spend their lives helping others regardless of what they may or may not believe in. So Old Dan, how do you think I feel after one of Penboys outlands remarks. I feel the same hurt that I feel when I read or hear that Westboro spill out their hate. You see I’am also gay. Yes I’am glad there are only a small number of these hate mongers,but I wish there where none.

    1. “That well happen when Penboy apologizes for the way he continues to blasphemes all Religions and faults them for all the evils that go on in this world.”

      First, I don’t give a flying fuck whether you apologize to me or not — I didn’t give what you said even a second thought, because it wasn’t worth considering in the least.

      But, let’s look at “blasphemy” and what it’s supposed to mean:

      “Christian theology condemns blasphemy. It is spoken of in Mark 3:29, where blaspheming the Holy Spirit is spoken of as unforgivable—the eternal sin. However, there is dispute over what form this blasphemy may take and whether it qualifies as blasphemy in the conventional sense; and over the meaning of “unforgivable”. In 2 Kings 18, the Rabshakeh gave the word from the king of Assyria, dissuading trust in the Lord, asserting that God is no more able to deliver than all the gods of the land. In Matthew 9:2, Jesus spoke the words “Your sins are forgiven you”; He was accused of blasphemy, since only God can forgive sins, although Christians believe that Jesus is God and hence entitled to do so.”

      You religious can’t even decide/accept whether jesus is either “god” or the “son of god.” Even in that “book” you adore (catholics read it the same way, so don’t give yourself a wedgie over that), that bullshit is just written into it. And, since I don’t believe in any of that bullshit, therefore, it’s not ‘blasphemous’ at all, it’s just telling the truth of it all. And since it gets people like you going into a tiff, so it can’t be all that bad, right?

      .
      .

      “I guess you would call [St Judes] Hospital a place of Idiots, Mother Theresa was also an Idiot.”

      That’s funny, especially if you had read or watched the news of her later years, she seriously questioned the concept of “god.”:
      http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1655720,00.html

      “A new, innocuously titled book, Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light (Doubleday), consisting primarily of correspondence between Teresa and her confessors and superiors over a period of 66 years, provides the spiritual counterpoint to a life known mostly through its works. The letters, many of them preserved against her wishes (she had requested that they be destroyed but was overruled by her church), reveal that for the last nearly half-century of her life she felt no presence of God whatsoever — or, as the book’s compiler and editor, the Rev. Brian Kolodiejchuk, writes, ‘neither in her heart or in the eucharist.’ ”

      Michael, before you reference someone or something, how about doing some research first? Mother Teresa was a great person and devoted her life to helping others, children, mostly. And guess what? She is proof that no one needs religion just to be good to their fellow human, especially children who usually need it most. (And there are hundreds of sites you can see which say essentially the same thing.)

      The remaining of your post above is just ignorant rambling on and on that you do so much of.

      And, Nandi [below], thank you for that post.

  18. One of the most disturbing aspect of all this hate in the US is a report I read the other day which stated that the standard of education in the US is dropping and that the next generation will be less well educated than this one..

    1. I think you are right.
      But, even here in the U.K. we struggle a lot with basic stuff too.
      BTW – have you noticed that the gang violence in London seems to have slowed down a lot recently. For almost every day last year it seemed another black teen had been murdered – but now almost zero. Is it not being reported or what?

  19. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. That is how the 1st Amendment reads. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. That is how the 2nd Amendment reads.

    1. Other than just repeating what I posted above, what, exactly is your point? I posted both Amendments verbatim, with correct explanations after each phrase of both.


  20. Michael:

    @ Old Dan: You wish me to apologize to penboy. That well happen when Penboy apologizes for the way he continues to blasphemes all Religions and faults them for all the evils that go on in this world.

    When I read that reply I was left speechless. Then, after rereading it I suddenly realized that you don’t care about human beings but only about “The Ring”, the “Precious”! The one that can totally corrupt a soul, religion! I will even go further by comparing you to a good man that lost his way. It even killed him. Remember Matthew Harrison Brady? Just before he keels over he’s feverishly spewing verse after verse from the bible. No matter what kind of evidence was to be presented in the trial he refused to take it into consideration. He even had it banned from the trial.

    You are doing the same thing with YOUR RELIGION AND YOUR GOD. You are afraid that anything said that is negative could harm your religion and your god. The Truth doesn’t matter anymore. So, if I say that the pope is a homophobic bigot and promoting the killing of gays and have absolute proof of it you still refuse to open your eyes to it. You are that same “Matthew Harrison Brady” when you start screaming blaspheme, blaspheme, blaspheme. That’s your last defense. It also is showing that just like “Matthew Harrison Brady” you lost your way and your understanding of what ever your religion and god are. You are in love with a book, it’s ink and paper and the image of a god that has been fed to you instead of trying to live by the Spirit of a god that would be here for all of us, no matter what gender, color, sexual orientation we are or even to what religion we belong to or even to what refusal of religion we might have. After all, if god exists he or she or what ever created all of us. It really comes down to that awesome Golden Rule that goes way back, even to the Code of Hammurabi. That Rule also has some serious implications. For one, we must keep an open mind to properly understand it. It’s a way of life, NOT a religion. Then we must be ready to do what has to be done to live by that Rule. A religion is to be lived “within” while that Rule is to be lived “without”.(hope I phrased this properly)

    Believe what you want but don’t even dare impose your way of thinking on me. I love to cook missionaries!

    Michael, you want to be godly? Fine by me. Just work at getting rid of those that corrupt religion, any religion. Stand up to them. Fight them in any way you can. The Word can really be mightier than the sword. They are not men of god, at least in my eye. A religion should never harm even one hair on the head of a child. Remember that above all.


    Michael:

    You see I’am also gay.

    So? How is that relevant to this topic? Gay or not, religious or not, this topic transcends everything we are. We are talking about human beings being hunted down the same way other human beings were in other genocides. Never forget that some of those genocides were also religiously backed.

  21. God is the same as Tinker Bell. Remember? If anyone stops clapping Ticker Bell will die. It’s time to stop clapping!
    The Abrahamic religions have more blood on their hands than all the seas could hold.
    Too many Christians and too few lions. That is the real problem.

  22. • Not beating their wives will make men gay says Polish Church
    • Catholic Archbishop: gays equal rights a crime against humanity
    • Porn causes men to support gay marriage, says US sociologist
    • Former US governor blames lack of religion for shooting
    • Pastor: Schools teaching how to be a homo caused shooting
    • US Church says gay rights caused school shooting massacre
    • American Family Association says gay marriage caused shooting

    All of the above are positive proof that we are taking education and true learning backwards at least 50 years, and all because of RELIGION and their control-grabbing churches. I don’t know what was the real and true cause of the extinction of the various dinosaurs (and related), but if we don’t stop this backward spiral of intellect, then we will become just as extinct or, just more animals fighting over the carcasses of others. We already have certain species just for that — why can’t we rise up above that and actually prove our supposedly “superior intellect”? More and more evidence shows we are becoming the same idiots of our Scopes / “Monkey Trial” in 1925.

    1. The following is the link to the real Scopes Monkey Trial Transcript

      http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/scopes/scopes2.htm

      _______________________

      Michael, a thought came to my mind, . Where does it say in either the old or new testament that a human being mustn’t question all that there is? After all, if one questions, even better, if one has the freedom to question how could it weaken faith? Even the most ardent atheist of agnostic will have the honesty to say that he just has no proof there isn’t a god. Is there? I don’t know but I do see the harm caused by blind faith.

  23. @Old Dan: God, for a person who is speechless you sure can TYPE. Did that amazing thought that I can nothing about human beings come to you in a flash of light or a big bang. You see you are wrong on both counts. I do care so very much about other people, but I well not lay down and let them walk over me. I’am not one for “turn the other cheek”. When you turn the other cheek you don’t always get back up. The difference between Penboy and You is you can write your beliefs with out putting a lot of derogatory lines in your comments. I can honestly say I don’t understand your belief, but I can respect you for it. As for Matthew Harrison Brady, I did see that movie years ago. Didn’t think much of it then. Don’t think much of it now, for you see I’am not into that Adam and Eve story. Never was. still not into it. It has always been just a story of incest with me. There is one question I have for you. When you cook your missionaries which part do you eat.

    1. “As for Matthew Harrison Brady, I did see that movie years ago. Didn’t think much of it then. Don’t think much of it now, for you see [I’am] not into that Adam and Eve story. Never was. still not into it. It has always been just a story of incest with me.”
      .

      Knowing all you have posted against me for being so much of an Atheist and for your silly notions of me “blaspheming” [/word?] all religious ideas, and then you post this (your true beliefs, I assume)? [Yes, I know, you've said it before and I called you out on it.] In my eyes, it can’t get any more hypocritical and quite frankly, stupid, than this.

      The absolute and entire purpose of all this “god/jesus, everlasting life”, bible, christianity, etc [ad nauseum] was/is for this (actually, these, because there are two made up stories in genesis, alone) “Adam & Eve” story. Don’t think so? Then why would there be any “everlasting life”? For what other purpose — the [lower] animals, the trees? Why else would there be even any concept of some all-knowing, all-powerful “god” other than to fault these same “humans he created” and then to “offer this everlasting life” as the only way for [you] people to actually believe in [him]? You [any "believer"] seriously need to do some real thinking and contemplation about why you believe in this crap.

      And if you say it’s for “being good,” then why are so many non-believers also very good in their lives? And yet, so many believers started wars (and continue to wage them) and have all this contempt for anyone other than their own “clique” who also are stupid enough to believe in this pure garbage.

      Seriously, Michael [and any other "believer"], what logic can you come up to continue to believe in these fairy tales. If you really think there is “everlasting life,” then when and where is your absolute proof? If you say you know, absolutely, of “someone/anyone” who has received “everlasting life,” then I will call you a LIAR. If you say you’ve “talked to this god” or that “this god has spoken to you,” then I will call you a LIAR. Tell all of us, you seriously expect us to believe you have any of these “god” privileges, but no one else does/has? Really? Are you going to try to actually pass that onto us?

      I’m only asking that you consider and listen/read actually logic and reasoning — if that’s even possible with you. You admitted you have doubts …. how about “listening” to those doubts a lot more seriously?

  24. @Penboy: Thank you for that information on Mother Teresa. Yes she did lose faith along the way but if you read she comes back and loses it again. You see she is not the first to have uncertainties about their faith and she well not be the last. There are days that I have my doubts and then someone like you comes along and I again see the light.

  25. This thread of comments saddens and worries me on several counts.

    First, if we want to prevail against the anti-gay crowd, we need to speak with one voice as much as possible. Yes, we will always disagree on some points, but on the larger issues we need clarity. The uncivil infighting and personal attacks seen here don’t help us advance our cause one bit, and some bears a strong resemblance to schoolboy bullying.

    Second, while I personally have no interest in religion of any kind (athiest family heritage on mom’s side and a dad who wouldn’t push religion on anyone) and consider myself a secular humanist, I will defend the right of others to follow their beliefs, however unfounded in science – as long as they don’t infringe on the rights of others to have their own beliefs. That’s when the line between freedom and license is crossed.

    Not all religious people share the anti-gay sentiments of the extremists, and it’s not fair to tar them all with the same brush. The American Episcopal church ordained the first openly gay Bishop, and there are many gay-friendly churches across the country. That’s a big step forward.

    I’m continually impressed by those of my church-going acquaintences who are openly pro gay-rights.

    A few months ago I was working in an office at which the new boss was a very religious Southern Baptist woman (from Texas, a state with a strong anti-gay reputation). A news story came on the radio about a poor gay kid being tormented to suicide by some self-proclaimed “Christians.” She became visibly upset and denounced these people as “hollow Christians who just don’t get it.” In the course of the subsequent conversation between her and the office staff, it came out that she fully supports gay marriage, equal rights, gay adoption, etc.

    I was amazed! Before this I was convinced all Southern Baptists were in lockstep with their anti-gay beliefs. In fact, she said it’s not true at all. A small but growing minority are breaking with the church’s views.

    There is good news. These lunatic fringe preachers we see in the headlines are a shrinking minority, thanks in part to well reasoned arguments and civilized behavior on our side.

    It’s a good thing these right wing preachers’ crazy views are exposed in the press for all to see. The crazier they are seen to be, the more people will shy away from them. And, we can help them “see the light” with well-reasoned, articulate arguments.

    The really dangerous ones are the “dominionists” who believe in a Christian theocracy and want to take over the US government (can you say “Christian Taliban”?). These were the folks behind Rick Perry’s presidential candidacy.

    According to a number of polls taken in the last two years, just over half of all Americans now support gay marriage. If the Supreme Court rules favorably on gay rights this year, I predict that number will jump even higher right away. If the Court waffles on this, we’ve got lots more work to do.

    Argue about and discuss your ideas ad infinitum – that’s what democracy is all about. But, please, let’s keep it civilized and remember we all share a common goal – equal civil rights for all.

    Don’t let your guard down and become complacent or apathetic. The crazies will stop at nothing to further their cause, no matter how un-Christian.


  26. Michael:

    @Old Dan: God, for a person who is speechless you sure can TYPE.

    Yes I can! :P Still, you have no idea how much restraint I’m using not to blast away at you the way you do at me.

    Still, I am going to blast away at you and Penboy. The both of you remind me of the following.

    “Errand Of Mercy” and “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”

    Both are the perfect example of what you are both doing. You are screaming “I believe and no one will stop me”. Meanwhile, Penboy, you are screaming “I don’t believe and no one will stop me. Both fighting for a lost cause if not for the wrong cause thought I would tend more for the wrong cause. Both of you are behaving like absolutists. Outside your way of thinking there is nothing. No salvation to be found instead of finding a way to unite in making sure an other kid doesn’t die because he’s perceived as different from the pack of wolves around him.

    Michael, in your reply to me you behaved as the perfect politician doing the two step dance. Avoid answering the real question and then go on the attack. Look at how you replied to me about “Inherit The Wind”. My point was about someone so blindly entrenched into his religion that he refused to even consider what others had to say. One of the best passage in that movie is when the question of how long days were when the world was created is brought up. It’s all about interpretation. Ironic isn’t it that it was the bible itself that was used to point that out? Meanwhile the preacher was even willing to damn his own daughter. Those are the people that have to finally go away.

    You accuse me and Penboy of wanting you to abandon your belief. Penboy will clarify where he stands but as for me I don’t care what you believe in. Is that clear? I know I’m repeating myself again and again but it’s not religion itself but the fundamentalists within religion, no matter what religion, that soil their religion with their hatred and bigotry. Look at Dave’s post, he on the right path. There are people that have a deep faith in a deity that are also practicing the golden rule. They are all encompassing instead of rejecting. I also agree with that. How could I disagree when, in fact, there are so many churches that are not only gay friendly but even stand up for gay rights. See? I’m not purposely blind. Showing something negative about a religion is also a way of correcting a problem. It never was about destroying it. People like the pope should all be openly rejected and even made to be accountable for the deaths they leave in their wake. That’s where your energy and Penboy’s energy should be directed at instead of at each other.


    Michael:

    I can honestly say I don’t understand your belief, but I can respect you for it.

    My belief? I live my life as a prayer. Far more complicated than simply brainlessly mouthing words.

    P.S. : What part? I love hotdogs. :P

    1. placebo: Something offered with no intrinsic remedial value that is used to appease or reassure another while making [the givers] more powerful and wealthy.

      This is a very good description of all religions.,

      When I was a young boy and I went into a small store to get either some candy or soda, I’d have probably only around 10¢ to buy something. Sometimes I’d see item(s) that could cost around $1.00. If I really wanted those items, I’d go out and try to get that $1.00, usually by getting some bottles to recycle for as much as I could get from the store owner.

      People of science say we humans use only approximately 10% of the potential of our brains. I’ve always tried to use more than just that 10%. Of course I, like any other human so far, sadly, can’t get up to that full 100%, but I have tried my best. And, for me, it’s the trying to improve my intelligence as much as I can that means most to me in this regard and not settling for just the minimum.

      Notice in Msg. #55, how I stressed the ignorance and stupidity of what religions are about and are doing to the people of the world. And if you follow my previous posts, you will always see a recurring ‘theme’ that I speak with regard to religions, and that is ignorance and stupidity. So, I ask myself, if humans are to survive and hopefully, intellectually, ‘go forward’, the last thing we need is something to keep pulling us backward and create violence and destruction in its path. And that’s exactly what all religions do.

      I’ve said before that my mother told me many times that to stop learning is a sign of decay and dying. So, I strive to keep learning what and when I can. I also speak out against ignorance (with regard to religions) when it’s so easy to move forward and gain more intelligence.

      Personally, I despise this attitude of “I don’t care what you believe in, as long as it doesn’t ‘cross the line.'” Well, that’s exactly what religions do 24/7 — cross the lines of intelligence and controlling how people live their [generally, passive] lives. And those that do and say that, are just as apathetic I mentioned above in Msg. #7. And that’s exactly why we [all of us, around the world] are in this political and violent mess as we are in the middle east right now. So Dan, sorry, but I put you in this exact ‘category’ of apathy because you simply “don’t want to be bothered” about religion. So many people like you think, if you ignore it, it should just go away. Trouble is, it doesn’t go away, it just gets worse and the links at the top are great examples of how it just won’t go away.

      And, here’s the rub: Those in religious power do care what we believe in to the point of forcing all of us to believe in their views of these stupid religions (which have no proof to back themselves up) with any method they can get away with. And by forcing us, they do it physically and by laws and culture (as in the middle east) and by laws and subliminally here in the USA.

      There’s a great conversation in The West Wing between ‘The President’ and his ‘body man’. The body man asked the President why we have this “Red Mass” every October for the Supreme Court Justices when our Constitution clearly states the separation of church and State. The President replies that though the Red Mass is wrong and technically illegal, we allow it anyway because “it’s no big deal.” Well, to me, it’s a big deal. The same as the House and Senate starting their work with a religious prayer invocation. THAT IS WRONG AND THAT IS ILLEGAL — CLEARLY STATED IN OUR CONSTITUTION. But, the American people have become 100% totally APATHETIC to these ILLEGALITIES to the point that most will say, “Why bother about it, it’s done, so let it be.” It’s been like that for over 100 years to the point now that most people don’t know it’s illegal and just think it’s the way to run our government. It’s the very same as a lie being told enough times in a long enough time, everyone starts believing in this lie.

      This is only the tip of the surface of how I feel about this, but I know this is long so I’ll stop for now. And it’s late and I want to go to bed.

      1. I agree with your entire post. Bewildered?

        I’m not trying to be funny in case you wondered. I have the same absence of love for religion. While I was raised in a catholic environment I was left free to question as much as I wanted to. I was able to become a freethinker.

        But here is a question for you. As much dislike and loathing you have for religion what purpose does it serve? I know damn well I can’t eradicate religion. After all, I can’t prove god doesn’t exist. Can you? We are on equal par with the religious fundamentalist that can’t prove god does exist. Now THAT is hilarious, don’t you think so? So what’s the use fighting the wrong battle? Lets say you saw an atheist or agnostic being a bigot and homophobe would that make him better than a religious bigot and homophobe because he’s an atheist or agnostic? If I pointed him to you would you want to get rid of him from the ranks of atheists and agnostics? Wouldn’t you agree that he’s a root cause of a problem? Would you agree that his actions should not reflect upon all the other atheists and agnostics? I suspect that is exactly what you would do. You would boot him out without a second thought and so would I. That’s what I’ve been killing myself trying to explain to Michael.

        He’s a person of faith. So be it. But I now hold him accountable for his refusal to deal with the problem that is found in when it comes to religious fundamentalists. It’s not getting rid of religion that is urgent, it’s those god damn fundamentalists no matter what religion they belong to.

        Remember your list of articles you pointed at him that he dismissed so cavalierly? You had absolute proof of what you were saying. Still didn’t make him budge. His loss, not yours, not mine.

        So, in my own humble opinion we have to hold those fundamentalists accountable for the abuse kids receive. Accountable for the death of those kids and teens and adults. It’s time that courts be used to go after their throats, no matter what their position might be, from the lowly “civilian” to even the pope or any top religious leader. Freedom of expression never meant praising the lord for one less gay or preaching that the lord punished people because they accept gays. Then you can deal with all the other points, constitutionalities, legalities and such.

        One step at a time. So, yes, I agree with you but…

        This year is but hours to ending. Now all I hope is that for the next year we can find ways that go beyond simply typing and make a difference. I know I’m a real pain but so be it. :P Have a happy new year, all of you.

  27. @Old Dan: I’am going to write this comment and if it gets through that ok. I think Josh may have cut my off. I agree with Dave and like I said Old Dan I respect your opinions. I may not agree with them all but this is your right to voice what you believe is right. I have that right to. I see no reason to restrain myself because I don’t feel that I need to blast my opinions at you because like I said some time ago I feel we should agree to disagree in a civil manor. I like the fact that you live your life as a prayer. You really can’t ask for much more in ones life. I hope that you havea good New Year coming up.

  28. I respectfully disagree with agreeing with your point of view. In fact, IF there is an other article about a gay kid, or teen, or adult having either been bullied to death, or murdered, or actually have been executed for being gay or perceived as gay I will gleefully rub your nose in it while saying “told you so!” Have a good year.


  29. Penboy:

    I’m not sure what or whom you’re replying to.

    I was replying to your post #63

    I really did mean it that I agree with your sentiments toward religion but I see it as follows. Religion has existed since the dawn of humanity. It’s something that simply can’t be done away with BUT the people within it that cause harm can be done away with! One by one by all legal ways possible.(of course:P ) You want the impossible. I want the possible. It never was about apathy. I’m a realist. When it comes to religion we are dealing with something that is often one step away from fanaticism. I’m not interested in starting a holy war. Simply put it’s fascinating what a grain of sand can do! Go ask Galileo, Copernicus, Michelangelo and so many others! You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to win against a religion, just a grain of sand.

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