108 thoughts on “Soft”

  1. In the end, there is only one way to deal with persistant bullies. This is it. Don’t give me any bleading heart liberal crap. If you tie the hands of your police then you have to deal with thugs yourself.

    This is why UK has nuclear weapons and a credible means of delivery.

    Speak softly, be patient, but always carry a bigger weapon than you adversary.

    1. Tigs,

      How would you protect a sixty-five year old man from these thugs? Not everyone can stand up for themselves.

      1. Scott, self-defence is the best way to fight back assholes bullies by any means. Even a sixty year old should do that.

        1. What about an infirm 75 year old woman then? It’s well known that psychopaths like this target only those who can’t fight back. Don’t we, as a society, have a responsibility to spend the money necessary to give effective protection to those who can’t protect themselves? Does everyone have an individual responsibility to fight these guys themselves, without help?

    2. A most optimal course of action would be break a few of they bones when nobody was looking or if he was capable of successfully dispose the body or ready to face the consequences, kill him…
      He also could induce a murder by self defense but is a little more tricky and risky…

    3. im not sure what cricket bats are made or but it reminds me of a clint eastwood line in a movie after he thrashed some scumbag he held up a club of somesort and stated “nothing like a fine piece of hickory”
      too bad you lads across the pond do not have the option of a colt .45 that is what i keep in my home for just such events thankfully i have never had to use it

    4. “The use of force alone is but temporary. It may subdue for a moment; but it does not remove the necessity of subduing again…” – Edmund Burke

      “No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.” – Edmund Burke

      “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing” (or words to that effect)

      http://tartarus.org/~martin/essays/burkequote.html

      It is interesting to note that the director shows the neighbors coming outside to gawk AFTER the bullies and the bashed are gone…

      1. They weren’t coming outside to gawk. They felt free to come out of their houses because the kid got rid of the bullies…something the adults wouldn’t/couldn’t do.

  2. Ugh, I see this kind of goddamn parasite everyday. The government seems to think that throwing money at this problem will make it go away.
    This kind of disease should be rounded up and taken out of our society by whatever means necessary.
    This vermin has no prospect for a future, and ultimately no right or reason to exist. So remove them. This would solve so many problems.

    1. “by whatever means necessary” sounds kind of fascist to me, James. The problem would be that these very thugs would be the ones that would be the first to volunteer to do something “by whatever means necessary.”

      1. ”The problem would be that these very thugs would be the ones that would be the first to volunteer to do something by whatever means necessary.”
        FLASH NEWS,Scott, ”these very tugs” already abusing and attacking LGBT People ”by whatever means necessary”, just you know.

        1. I know. I was attacked in Washington D.C. in 1994 by a fifteen year old ringleader and two henchmen very similar to these guys. My nose was broken and I had to have a subsequent operation. The smartest thing I’ve ever done was run away from my attackers and get to a busy street where there would have been witnesses. I was told later that if I had tried to fight back, I probably would have been knifed.

          It’s easy to talk macho about how these guys should be bashed back, but if you really want a safe society you have to spend the money for quick police protection and an effective legal system that intervenes and stops psychopathic kids like this as soon as they start their antisocial behavior. We don’t do that in America. We just watch cop shows and Mad Max movies and think that solves the problem. Countries like France, Germany and Sweden have to be better at handling people like this than America or Great Britain. I’d love to hear from people in other countries how they handle their 15 year old thugs.

          1. you’re right, the best way to keep your self safe is to avoid the situation all together which means having a society that protects one another. But sometimes you have no one else there to rely on but yourself, and you need to be strong. mentally strong in my opinion. if you know how to approach people like this you can get them to back off, the person in this movie inviting the terror by his reactions towards them. thats what i took out of this movie.

  3. The moment the Iann ran out with a cricket bat made me laugh so hard! It literelly filled me with happiness! This is to be honest, what these parasites need! And the second the dad unlocks his car to turn the alarm off literely made me LoL! It’s a beautiful film, and shows why our Kameron shouldnt be cutting the budget to the Film Council ¬.¬

    I myself live in Nottingham, and i live inbetween the largest council estate built in the world (clifton) and one of the roughest in the area…. I know this kinda stuff! and that kid did exactly as i would have, but i dont have a cricket bat, so it would have been a guitar for me!

  4. A very good film and very painful to watch. I’m a coward too and I don’t know what I would have done except phone for the police.
    When people are goaded beyond endurance and to the point of retaliation the righteous anger they bring to the fight may even enable them to win.
    In this case one problem is the ‘being a man attitude’ which makes it look as if Scott’s respect for his father has gone.
    That would be a pity.
    Love,
    Anthony

  5. This excellent film still brings up two questions for me.

    First, why isn’t there any thought or mention of calling the Police? I know that would have ruined the dramatic story line, yet it is an obvious response in real life. (To preserve the dramatic story line they would have had to set the story in a remote location without access to a phone, cell or otherwise). This film is almost American in its theme of “you have to stand up for yourself because the general society won’t help you”.

    Second, what happens the next day? A gang of thugs like that would surely target Scott (I think that was his name, or I was just projecting myself into the story? … I didn’t know they had Scott’s in the U.K. …. although they obviously have lots of Scots. ((Sorry, really, really bad pun.))) Anyway, they surely would target Scott for revenge, and they would make sure that he was in a more helpless situation the next time.

  6. The biggest weapon of all has never been violence.

    I agree with the necessity of a quick response in some occasion, but the real problem is not there. Where do they come from? Why?

    If you ask this kind of “parasites” what they vote or would vote, they express very conservatives opinions.

    No need of “bleading heart liberal crap” to analize that.

    1. Saint-Ange,

      I’ve always heard that the French police and legal system are very effective. Would you agree?

      1. I’ve heard the French police are a bit mean (understatment) and legal system is Napoleonic (you’re guilty until you prove your innocence). Ask Algerians or Vietnamese what they think of French law enforcement. Disclaimer, I like France, surf and enjoy visiting there and have considered living there, but that does not change history.

        1. Thanks, benu. I guess I was suffering from the “grass is always greener” syndrome.

          1. I agree with saint ange (and to scott, I don’t think french police is any better, I am french and I have been bullied and robbed a few times by the same kind little assholes). But I think this film is a little caricatural and not very realistic. I mean, shit happens, a lot worse shit happens actually, but at no point the father or the son thought of calling the police ? Why ? Why would auto defense be the only answer you think of when you are safe in your house in a friendly neighborhood ? Also, ever wondered what would have happened if the son failed at beating up the thugs ?

            Actually, I think this film’s message is absolute shit ! And I am appaled that so many people here think otherwise. Sorry for bad language.

  7. In the states they would just convince you that everyone just needed a hug.

    Oh and they would lock up the kid for escalating the situation and probably charge the dad for abuse of a minor (not keeping his kid under control)

    Then again, the difference of a hug and strangulation is the force by which it is administered. So maybe the hug is the answer.

    I am so confused by all this :p

  8. As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy” Christopher Dawson

      1. Correct me ioif I’m wrong, but isn’t this the fundamental misconception that underpins the American right to bear arms, which is why gun crime and shootings run out of control in the US, and not in non gun owning countries.

        1. I’m not talking about arming citizens, I’m talking about proper Government intervention. As in, stop giving all these little ratty scumbags chance after chance after chance. If they continue to leach from our society then they should be removed. If I give you two scenarios: 1) Society the way it is, with worthless blood-bags like him terrorising a significant proportion of Britain’s areas, where the elderly are afraid to step outside etc etc OR 2) A society where none, or very little, of these c***s exist and an individual is able to walk down the street without fear of these rats and we can rid ourselves of this, quite frankly, embarrassing problem. If you choose scenario 2, then to achieve it, government money and ‘help schemes’ are nowhere near enough. Something more… drastic is required. That is not opinion, that is fact.

        2. Actually Scandinavian Countries have high gun ownership and low armed crimes excluding children shooting up schools which I slightly above average.

    1. Yeah, agree Bruce. Very disturbing, and real. Everyone’s question here is, what to do about it? And there’s no one simple, easy solution. Yes, better protection by law enforcement. Yes, better protection of the individuals by themselves. But, why the problem to begin with? Unless we address the problems at their source, all we’re doing is handing symptoms.
      Which, agreed, we have to do. For awhile.
      Or, a long time, if we don’t find the causes.
      I always enjoy your comments, btw.

      1. I know EXACTLY what the problem is, and it’s twofold:

        1. The disempowerment of all authority in UK kids lives from a young age, including parents, teachers and police. You can’t raise your voice to child without some liberal wet screaming abuse, whicxh is why we have generations of out-of control brats growing up KNOWING that they are untouchable.

        2. The cultural saturation of unpleasant macho stereotypes, largely imported from the US, via TV, movies, music & computer games.

        Kids need to have boundaries asserted in their lives again, asserted from a young age, and enforced with meaningful consequences for non-compliance.

        It won’t stop them all turning out like this, but it will certain divert a lot from going down this route.

        1. you Know EXACTLY what the problem is ? You know absolutely nothing, you are a fool, and you are the one who is saturated with stereotypes, not imported from us but hammered by right wing politicians everywhere. All you people talk about violence and thugs as if it’s a brand new thing coming from god know’s where. Violence always existed and always will. There is actually a lot less crime in every european country today then there was 50 years ago. Stop blaming it on video games and music for fuck’s sake ! Like…Video games and music ? Really ? I mean… Really ???? You think tv, movies, video games and music are responsible for this ??? this is such a ridiculous argument, I don’t even know why I am replying. I guess I can still love you, even if you are dumb as fuck. But please stop listening to right wing people k ?

          1. Aww, been let out of your cage for the weekend have we. Glad to get your belated “contribution” to the discussion, if your hate rant can be described as such.

            The fact that violence has always existed is irrelevant. I formed my opinion at school, when I saw how cultural behaviours demonstrated in movies and even advocated in music, entered every day life. The movie Faculty came out, and for a few months, every kid too slow to escape was suddenly getting posted, slang expressions were used in movies, and suddenly everyone was using those phrases.
            Clothing, gestures, even gang code was being imported directly from the US via movies, music and other sources. It makes me laugh when I see white Londoners talking like a cross between a Jamaican Yardie and a member of the Cryps, but teens are impressionable and many of them choose as role models, those whom they see as tough or powerful. With the decline of male role models in daily life, where do you think they draw their references?

            I’m sure that there was always a cultural drift from one country to another, but the growth of media and computer games has enabled it to happen faster and more pervasively than ever before.

            You might be scornful, but the other day I was in a car with an 8 year old boy, and he threw an insult into the conversation. I said, “Where did you get that from” “Grand Theft Auto” he replied.

            Phrases and mindsets are copied from sources perceived to be cool. I know loads of teens whose conversation is littered with Call of Duty, GTA, and other gaming expressions. If people are picking up the language, then you can be sure that it doesn’t stop there. People don’t cherry pick which bits to be influenced by and which not.

            When Eminem was in, I knew loads of guys who were quite moderate, but picked up his speech patterns towards women, and some of them have still not dropped that attitude now.

            So don’t tell me that impressionable, desperate to conform and be cool minds are not affected by culture that they receive from the US.

            And BTW, I wasn’t having a go at the US – as the largest producer of English-speaking media on the planet, of course the cultural excahnge is travelling in that direction. A statement of fact – not condemnation.

            1. With all due respect, K, I think you are looking at too short a time frame. Every generation has its own version of “Call of Duty” and “Grand Theft Auto”, and it’s own version of teenage thugs. The 1950′s and 1960′s had “juvenile delinquents” in the U.S. and “Rockers” (as opposed to the “Mods”) in the U.K. In the 1930′s parents were anguishing about “Mobster Movies” with Jimmy Cagney. In the Nineteen-teens it was “Dime Novels” with “shoot-em-ups” and graphic pictures that were corrupting kids.
              I think elevencyan’s statement “There is actually a lot less crime in every european country today then there was 50 years ago.” is very important. I can remember the ’70′s in the U.S., and it was certainly more dangerous back then than it is now.

            2. Scott, you make a good point about this not being a problem exclusively of our generation. I realise in making my case that I sound like the bible-bashing minister in the movie Footloose. The fact that this may be an issue that has existed for as long as poor role models could be publicly displayed does not lessen its validity.

              The current generation has far greater access to bad role models, and sadly, thanks to the pedophile paranoi as well changes in family structure and working habiits, they have less access to good role models.

              Statististics on violent crime may well be down (although I’m always sceptical of such things because they’re so easy to manipulate). Greater chance of being caught in the security camera age may be a factor, but I definitely feel that the last couple of generations have been more unruly, less respectful, and quicker to anger than formerly. I definitely believe that concepts of masculine behaviour have been media taught in the absence of other male guidance, and given the movies that males are most likely to watch – those with exaggerated, macho alpha males – the kids are being steered towards behaviour that makes them and their existence less pleasant.

            3. Okay I’m sorry I overreacted, I admit. But I get pissed by statements lik “I know EXACTLY the problem” followed by “video games, movie etc” Violence is first and foremost a socio-economic problem. Also, your first point was that violence is due to your country being softer with violence, kids having to much rights etc. That is also a very wrong. I have nothing against you (obviously, I don’t know you) but education is a subject very dear to me. I’m replying to you but I think there are a lot of person saying horrible things in this thread.

              Violence is very mediatised. Simply because it is a popular subject. Then it is instrumentalised by politicians. I’m french, I know that Sarkozy’s reinforced security politic gave terrible results. Beyond that I know that violence is not the most courageous answer to violence. There is a tendency to make fun of gandhi now. As if, that guy wasn’t real. But he was, he existed, and he was brave. Why nobody’s taking example on people like that ? Why does it have to be mocked all the time ? I don’t think the father in that film responded well at all. But that’s not because he didn’t use violence. It’s because he showed his fear and his helplessness to the bullies.

              I don’t hate you, I’m sorry I talk like that.

            4. Ok, no harm done elevencyan. I will always believe that media has a powerful influence on youth behaviour, including aggression because I have seen the evidence of it with my own eyes so very many times. However, I do agree that socio-economics play a part – how big a part, I don’t know. I’m also positive that a decline in rights of schools and parents has led to an increased disrespect or lack of self restraint by kids, and again, this is acutely born out by experience in my own life.

              I realise that violence is a complex multi-faceted, multi-layered problem, just as homophobia is. With homophobia, one can point at a few key issues – ignorance, bigotry, fear, male insecurity, religion based morality – and say that these have a much greater weight in the equation. Likewise, I believe that cultural examples taught through the media, whilst not exclusively responsible, do carry significant weight in teaching poor behaviour.

              Thanks for your apology. Warmly accepted.

            5. Just want to say I really enjoy your well written and carefully considered comments.

            6. Thank you Bruce. You are a person whose comments I have come to respect also.

  9. this is exactly why i cant be botherd to live in the UK anymore these inbred scum are evrywhere!

  10. It’s neat that the passive father tried to some extent. My dad’s first words would be “you should of been beat up.” That whole heirarchy syndrome. (entirely different if he found out I was gay though.)

    Never liked the application of Dawson. ^-^

    1. How would ANY police have helped in this situation? The father calls the police – they turn up, the gang fades away, or maybe gets a warning, and then the kid gets stabbed in a dark alley next time he leaves home.

  11. Reminds me of “Shameless” Unfortunately these low lives are in every country. Here in Auckland NZ, Sydney Aust, New York, Moscow, Paris, etc. Tolerating them only makes them more bold, clamp down on them hard and the liberals will have you branded a facist. Interesting no one called the Police. Going out to face them weaponless was crazy, there are too many and they could have knifed the father without a second thought. The cowardly bastards would then most likely have run then returned later after dark and torch his car,

    1. EnigmaNZ,

      Your response interests me. Isn’t calling the Police clamping down on them hard? As you say, going out to face them weaponless was crazy. The father was in the perfect position to call the Police and press charges. Wouldn’t those kids have been “clamped down hard” when they were in handcuffs at the scene, and then in juvenile court (assuming the juvenile court didn’t just let them off)? The father could have gotten out the cell phone and start taking pictures as evidence. Even those thugs probably understood that breaking into the house raised the legal stakes to a much higher level. If they had broken in, the father would have been justified in using just about any force necessary, in America and probably most other countries. But while they were still in the house, and the thugs were outside, Scott and his father were still safe.

      Using the cricket bat as Scott did was very foolish. The thugs at that point probably did have a case for legal battery against Scott and his father, because they both came out of the safety of the house. If they stayed inside the house, however, and called the police, I think the case would be clear cut against the thugs.

      Of course my solution doesn’t apply to a lot of situations, especially the original beating that Scott got at the start of the movie. Fortunately in America, and I hope elsewhere, there is a growing awareness that school administrators must combat bullying.

      But that still doesn’t solve the problem of Scott’s original beating, which doesn’t look like it took place around a school. It’s very true that if Scott could have fought back, with a cricket bat or whatever, during that original beating, he was justified to do so. But running away is almost always the better action, if possible, and kids should be told that running away is just plain smart, instead of being told they always have to “stand up for yourself”. Standing up to a bully is very effective, but not every kid can do that. The kid that can’t stand up for himself, for whatever reason, has a right to expect protection and support from adults — not a second victimization by being told that they did something wrong by not fighting back. As for the bully continuing to pick on the kid, that’s also the adult’s responsibility to stop, whether it’s his father, his school administrators, or the police and legal system. After all, if ten kids stand up and fight back against psychopaths like this, then the psychopaths will avoid those ten, but then just find the eleventh kid that can’t. Bullies need to be stopped, but not by some kind of Clint Eastwood “make my day” fantasy. They need to be stopped by the adults.

      As a proud liberal I’ll stand by my statement above that “any means necessary” is kind of fascist. Fascism happens when psychopaths like these kids, who will obviously revel in any excuse to use “any means necessary”, then grow up and get in control of the government and the legal system. These bullies need to be stopped, but by effective, legal means. That’s hard to do, but it is the only way for a truly safe society.

      All of this is irrelevant to the movie, however, because the movie is making a dramatic statement about the relationship between Scott and his father. It is not trying to make the statement about society that I am making. Clint Eastwood will go down in history as one of the great movie directors. However, the values and ethics his movies espouse, especially in the earlier ones, are pure crap.

      “Go ahead and make my day.”

      1. You make many fine points Scott, and although I despise what liberalism has come to mean, I too consider myself a liberal – ie, not a person with a fascist outlook, who appreciates that often, you DO have to look beyond the immediate situation and show a modicum of understanding for ALL the players in the drama.

        My main reservation with your police suggestion is that it depends upon lots of forethought and common sense that one is unlikely to have whilst thus besieged.

        In the UK, the law expressly permits the use of PROPORTIONATE violence in defence of oneself or one’s property. With six violent thugs ripping the car apart, who had already attacked the kid, and were in danger of attacking the dad, I think the kid had a reasonable chance to argue that the baseball bat only levelled the playing field a bit. Furthermore, under duress, in both our legal systems, a person can argue a lack of judgement brought about by duress.

        Jeez, in the US, people have been shot for less!

    2. Wow, my reply is waaay too long. Here is the summary:

      1. Telling a kid he “should stand up and fight back” is just victimizing the kid a second time if he can’t do that.

      2. Avoiding a bully and running away, if necessary, if usually smarter than trying to fight back.

      3. A kid has the right to protection and support from bullies by the adults in his life.

      4. When one person stands up to a bully, the bully will just find another, weaker, person to pick on.

      5. Saying everyone should just stand up and fight back is a cop out of our responsibility, as a society, to protect the weaker members of society.

      6. Clint Eastwood is a great director, but, if you really analyze the values his movies are promoting, they are full of crap.

      1. Scott, interesting reply. But let me disagree with a couple of items.

        First, going out with a[ny] weapon if you have one, or even with your physical abilities, is not “fascism” — it’s known as self defense. Sometimes extreme violence for defense is called for whether you, I or we like or prefer to use it or not. If public safety (police, etc) is not available, then it’s up to common sense to protect yourself “by any means necessary” (as long as you didn’t provoke it first).

        Second, while Clint Eastwood is a good director, all these “Clint Eastwood” moments and sayings were not directed by him, but by another. He was just this super-cool actor [cop] either reading his lines for best effectiveness or ad-libbing which worked well with each movie. The only comparative movie to this video that he did direct was Gran Torino and, with that, he gave us his “swan song” by “dying” in it which is the only movie he died in (in that capacity) – his message to us that he will no longer act in one, but only direct.

        Obviously, this was only for the dramatic effect in this movie, but (as well as the police) no one has mentioned the fact that no neighbors ever came out to either watch or other that surely would have happened (at least in here in the USA). And no other cars would have driven by?

        1. Any means necessary is not legally supportable in any country. Who remembers the 50 year old Rod Martin who aoke to find two people burgling his hoome? He shot them, and it turned out he killed a 15 year old boy, yet went to prison for it. He lived alone in a remote farmhouse, and eatedly targeted, yet the law said that shooting them was disproportionate.

  12. I say at this level those people are lost but if society does a better job of keeping them out of trouble and there parents do a better job people like this can be avoided very few people are born like this

    1. I absolutely disagree that they are lost. They are exhibiting classic pack behaviour. Take away the leader, and scatter the pack, and they revert to more docile behaviour. This is a classic bullying dynamic – alpha male performs for the compliant audience, other members of pack copy behaviour to indicate membership and hierarchy within the pack. Disrupt the group mentality and the dynamic falls apart.

  13. We know how to take care of this kind of situations in Mexico City, you wont find the whereabouts of this kids in the next day.

    1. Macho nonsense. Who’s we? If WE were so tough, we wouldn’t find ourselves in this position in the first place would WE? It’s more likely that the father and son would be the ones to disappear in a society where extrajudicial murder is easy.

  14. People who show this kind of lack of morality,
    they are psychopaths.

    They should be put in mental hospitals or to death.

    1. ”They should be put in mental hospitals or to death.”
      Vincent, I go for the second option, why wast tax payers money by putting these rabid, violent thugs in mental hospitals ?

    2. It’s precisely this kind of absolutist black and white view that enables this kind of behaviour to continue.

      If recent wars have demonstrated anything, it’s that everyone has the capacity for both tremendous cruelty or good, and either can flourish under the correct circumstances.

      I do agree that strong action needs to be taken, but execution of teenagers for harrassment and a beating?

      The trouble is, society cannot afford the policing it feels it deserves, and it doesn’t have the stomach for the education system and laws that it needs, so kids like this, who are are scum, but have been allowed to become such by the adults around them, just get worse and worse.

    1. ”by posting this do you want to underline that violence is ok?”
      Speaking for myself, this post ”underline” importance of self-defence against violent homophobes.

  15. Scary, and that’s just the responses.

    I live in an affluent and comfortable part of the UK, and yet our village shop, just 80 yards up the road has been a target of two knife-point robberies in the last two years, the kids working in the shop (all under 20), younger than the guys who robbed it. My car (17 years old, but still a runner, yay the Fiat cinquecento) was nicked from outside my house.

    And yet I still feel safe and secure. It’s been a trope that things are getting worse for millennia, the ancient Greeks complained that this new fangled writing thing was rotting the brains of the young, memorising was better for them (Socrates, I think).

    Despite yesterday’s ‘riots’ in central London the actual damage caused was minimal. The water is safe to drink, I am unlikely to die of malaria, small pox, cholera or TB. I can travel hundreds, if not thousands of miles with little effort, or fear for my safety.

    Grow up, it’s a pretty good world out there. Sure there are problems, look at Libya just now, but on the whole life is good and getting better for the vast majority, assuming we don’t press the wrong button and blow ourselves up.

    So “calm down dear, its only a” movie; good grief, I never thought I would be quoting Michael Winner (the film director who most celebrated the vigilante).

    And don’t hit people with cricket bats, unless you ‘really’ have to.

    Peace and love,

    fb

  16. A substancial question here is to ask ourselves HOW are these kinds of parasites created by a society of consumme and waste…


    mrcongeniality:

    The moment the Iann ran out with a cricket bat made me laugh so hard! It literelly filled me with happiness! This is to be honest, what these parasites need! And the second the dad unlocks his car to turn the alarm off literely made me LoL! It’s a beautiful film, and shows why our Kameron shouldnt be cutting the budget to the Film Council ¬.¬
    I myself live in Nottingham, and i live inbetween the largest council estate built in the world (clifton) and one of the roughest in the area…. I know this kinda stuff! and that kid did exactly as i would have, but i dont have a cricket bat, so it would have been a guitar for me!

  17. I loved this short. Very well done. Their devotion to realisim is outstanding. Talk about suffering for your art. Those blows looked real.
    Questions that come to mind:
    1. Why didn’t the store owner call the police? Those thugs are driving business away.
    2. Do they have community policing? The neighbors should have called the police.
    3. Why didn’t the father call police after being assualted at the store? That’s what I would have done.
    4. With todays phone technology or digital camera’s for that matter they could have taken pictures as proof.
    5. What kind of gun laws do they have in the UK? The Dad has every right to protect his son, himself & his property. All bets are off, you do what you got to do.

    Keep in mind the possibilitiy of retaliation.

    What’s with all the liberal bashing?

  18. I find the “kill em” “mental hospital” “beat them up” comments interesting. That’s pretty much what homophobes say about gay guys. It’s not quite the same thing of course – gay guys aren’t beating up on them (at least not often). The problem isn’t always one of weakness though – it’s not wanting to lower oneself to their level.

    The most recent research on bullies says that they are motivated by the need to build or protect status in their gangs or groups. It’s not just the old “kid with issues lashing out at weaker victims” bit, although that’s still part of it to some degree. Happy, adjusted people don’t feel the need to build up their status in a group in that way. There are proven effective intervention programs for this sort of thing, but far too few. As long as politicians and law enforcement don’t feel compelled to act, it will go continue. Keep the pressure up.

    Beyond avoiding or defending from immediate attack, bullies should be handled by the authorities. If you defend yourself by counter-attacking, be sure you have friendly or impartial witnesses that can’t be intimidated. Otherwise the bully’s friends will lie to make you out to be the agressor.

    If the cops won’t or can’t do anything, the next best thing is to “gang up” on the bullies and take them down a peg – non-violently. Strength in numbers helps. This is not without risk. If the bully feels compelled to regain their status (their reputation) they could escalate things to a seriously dangerous level. Gotta’ know your bully.

    Sorry for the rambling comments.

    1. Outstanding post Dave. You gave me a new way of viewing the situation: “they are motivated by the need to build or protect status in their gangs or groups”. Ramble on.

    2. Very intelligent summation Dave. Everyone has an absolute right to defend themselves and their proprty from immediate ongoing assault, and let’s remember, even if he called the police, they might be 15 minutes away at a sprint, IF they even deem the situation worth attending with urgency, which is by no means guaranteed.

      All of that being said, the bullies know where he lives, so he’s in a very vulnerable position whatever course of action he follows.

  19. The dad is this movie is the only one who did the right thing.
    Sure, he was scared, but, violence wasn’t justified. He should have calmly gone outside, told the kids to fuck off or he would call the police. That’s the civilized way to handle things.

    Growing up, my father taught me a few very important things about fighting: first, he taught me how to fight, second, he taught me only to fight when I could win, and third, he taught me to never, ever fight at all if it could be avoided.

    My father was not – is not- a coward. He’s a powerfully built man, a former lineman for his college football team, and wrestled in high school and college. Even now, I don’t think I could take him in a fight. He has always had thin skin and is quick to anger, but despite that, he always keeps himself in check. Giving in to the little man – that’s what he called giving in to our passions – is the sign that a man is weak.

    So sure, we watch this video, and all of us want to take a swing at that cunt dressed in white. All of us cheered when we saw Scott swing that cricket bat. But it would have taken a great deal more strength, and a great deal more courage, to have walked up to that kid in white, take a hit to the stomach, and calmly, without flinching, tell the bastard to go home to his mother before the cops come.

    1. No disrespect, but this post displays a naive lack of understanding for the dynamics of violence. The dad went outside, tried, in his bumbling way to assert himself, as they continued to rip his car apart around him. He was lucky he wasn’t assaulted. They don’t play by any set of rules so you can’t apply “right thing” thinking to the situation.

      Your solution runs contrary to police advice. It runs contrary to studies of modern violence, and it runs contrary to logical self-preservation. If you think he’s going to go out there, “Hey chaps, now just you stop that fellows or I shall jolly well call the police”, and he would be met with anything but derision and a possible assault on the way to the phone, you’re very optimistic.

      If I’m the one being assaulted, I’d prefer you come out swinging the cricket bat please.

  20. An adult has to be very careful in reacting to minors. Witnesses are needed. There are occasional well documented incidents in the usa where kids have attacked and killed adults. Two friends of mine witnessed a half a dozen kids early to mid teens, attacking and hurting a man across the street on the sidewalk,. My friends ran across and seriously beat the hell out of the kids until they left. My friends are pretty mean and probably broke some bones. I don’t have a problem with that. You have to be sure the attackers are causing bodily harm and then there are few restrictions. A person has the right to use necessary force to stop grievous harm being done. If a person isn’t a trained fighter then there is a lot of latitude in your reaction since one isn’t a professional and apt to overuse force. Oh well, stuff happens. Property damage is not sufficient and that’s where people make mistakes! The father in the movie should have called the police at the store, much less his house. He shouldn’t have gone outside without having called the police first. His son had the right to go out and defend his father once he was attacked. Of course call the police if at all possible. I’ve called the police and was always glad I did but I have been attacked and sure didn’t have time to call. I’ve run when I could. I don’t believe in passive resistance to violence against me and give no apologies for my actions. I’ve been spit on and just walked away. I don’t react to incitement, only to violence.

  21. I had to watch this short without sound but I clearly understood its message. I was physically assaulted when I was in school. I didn’t have the intention to back down and be a coward back then, I fought back. It gave me a sense of satisfaction seeing another teenager on the ground, bleeding heavily after getting repeatedly punched in the face. I felt better about myself and I haven’t had any major problems since then. Violence is acceptable in the right situation, but other than that, it should be used as a last resort. I’m quite a short-tempered person and I don’t tolerate abuse of any kind.

    The father in this short was passive while the son was a bit more agressive. Under normal circumstances, a cricket bat to the head will kill or inflict permanent “side effects” later on. From my point of view, I approve of violence as a last resort but I don’t approve of bullies/gangs in any way. While I was watching this short, my heart was racing because it felt too real to be a film. In fact, these things happen on a daily basis and they happen to everyone. It’s kind of like “survival of the fittest”, but even then, bullies are always brought down to hell in the end.

    Peace,
    Cypher

  22. If this sceen took place in America the father and son would be shot or worse. In any case a retaliation would certainly take place. We are talking about criminal pride here which is a very different mind set. This is a no win situation. The best thing to do would be to call the police and add to the paper trail as the boy in white is likely to have a probation officer assigned to him. However, it was a fun emotional release to identify with the son and the cricket bat. I thought the film was very well acted and the fight/attack sceens believably real.

    1. Our problem here in America is exactly what you said about adding “to the paper trail”. The kid in white needs to be handled effectively by the authorities after the first incident, not the fifth or sixth.

  23. The Dad in this video was not only constrained by his own fear but of his responsibility and accountability. He as an adult in our so-called “civilized society.” He is subject to the laws of the crown. If he were to hit the boy, a fifteen year old boy, he would be guilty of abusing a minor. And punished accordingly. When you take the right to self defense away from the common man you hamstring his honor and dignity. People who live by Natural Law will alway will in the short fall. It would only be later in a court that justice “may” be served thanks to CCTV. But by then your son may be dead. what are you going to so then? Complain to the police and ask them to bring back your son from the dead?

    The son, is less upset about his father’s fear. He is more upset about his hypocrisy. The son would have stood by tooth ‘n nail, if, the father would have admitted his fear and then asked his son’s help in defeating the mob.

    The only answer to a problem like this is a big stick or a gun. Violence is the only device that bullies understand or respect. I applaud the boys actions. The bully will think twice again.

    1. > Violence is the only device that bullies understand or respect.

      That’s not true, but it is the most immediate.

      The trouble is, the bullies are already damaged, and fixing that damage CAN be accomplished, but not in the timespan that the victims had available..

  24. That was an interesting video. But, it did not really conclude well for me.

    Did the bullies actually leave the family alone after the fight in the end, or did it just end up making things worse? What if they just came back later with a gun or some other weapon?

    I think in reality it would seem more wise to call the police. Even if the police could not get there quickly enough, the son seemed to know the bullies from school anyway.

  25. The thing is, if the father had attacked the 15 year old he could have been sent to jail for years. Its more then just a fear of being hit, he has his whole family to think of. I mean I doubt I would have stopped with just a light kicking to his head while hes down myself.

    I think he should have called the police, said he was in danger, and out-numbered, and then beat on him, saying it was too late he had to act.

  26. I picked up this well known lout, one afternoon in my taxi, perhaps 15 years ago. He was pissed and abusive, made veiled threats of violence and was a general cunt of the 1st degree (many other drivers refused to take him anywhere and often drove off the rank when they saw him coming). When we got to his destination he offered me a portion of what the fare should have cost and said I would get the rest if I picked him up in the evening to take him back into the city. I agreed to collect him at 7pm from the same place that I’d dropped him off. I prepared myself for him, placed a small kitchen knife under the passenger seat, one that I’d wiped clean of my finger prints.
    Surprisingly, he was there just at 7pm where we’d agreed. He got in, still stank of booze from that afternoon and was slurring his speech so he’d obviously had even more to drink in the interim. Again he was being an ass-hole, said he wasn’t going to pay the fare and that if I had any objections he and his mates would sort me out late one night.
    The subject turned to how I would defend myself if I got attached in the taxi, I said that I had my means and had never been attacked. We were now just a couple of minutes from the city centre taxi rank and I knew the place would be teaming with people. “But what would you do if someone pulled a knife on you, or a gun or a baseball bat?” he asked. I told him my protection was under his seat, he reached under and took out the knife and played with it, swapping hands weighing up the balance of it firstly holding it by the handle and then by the blade.
    Pulling into the city centre I found what I was looking for, headed straight for it and slammed on the brakes, this action made him drop the knife. The occupants of the police car that I’d nearly hit was a little taken back but jumped into action when I got out and shouted that this nutter had tried to rob me with a knife. They dragged him out, battered him a little, cuffed him and retrieved the knife from where he’d tried to hide it. He obviously cried innocence but with his previous convictions and the fact that he’d only been out of prison for a few months for theft led him to actually plead guilty to attempted armed robbery. He was eventually given 7 years imprisonment but sadly was beaten to death in a prison fight after serving 3 years.

    1. You pulled a cool move David, but you still would have been a lot safer if you just didn’t pick him up. Surely this guy could have just been boycotted by all taxi drivers. He had been abusive to other taxi drivers and had a criminal record. If Britain doesn’t allow drivers to refuse known abusive passengers, than that needs to be changed.

      Do you really think the society you’re describing is a good society? The police “battered him a lIttle” and he is killed in jail. Can’t you think of a better way to stop this guy than risking your life as you described?

    2. So you set this guy up and he eventually died for it? Hmmm. Mixed feelings about that given that you had the choice not to interact with him in the first place.

  27. Thank the Founding Fathers for the Second Amendment and CCW permits. When dear ol’ Dad was knocked down at the store, he could have dispatched these inconvenient children, and NO court in the country would have convicted him. I am always armed. Always.

    1. I guess it had to happen – the start of another American Second Amendment gun discussion. Let’s just not do it this time, huh?

  28. Rounding up “parasites” and dumping them all in the sea is clearly not a viable option, neither is offering knife-wielding “disenfranchised young people” a hug and a social worker for 30 minutes a month. Being of 31, I don’t remember the “good old days” of the 50s, but, correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t society missing a learnt lesson?

    Teenagers typically need direction and focus. Once they lack that positive impetus, they can, but not invariably do, cause havoc. The amount of enforcement depends on a case by case basis – in PC, waffle-padded, 2011 Britain, let’s call it “guidance”. 15 year olds who carry knifes and attack OAPs clearly need to be enforced, or “guided”, more than your average PS3 addict. Obviously.

    For the extreme cases, juvenile/adult detention is necessary but, for a lot of cases, a measure of enforced purpose and direction can guide most “parasites”, or “disenfranchised young people”, on to something better. Give most people something better to aim for and they’ll run with it, often far beyond your expectations.

    I’m not a liberal or a politician, nor am I naive. I do, however, believe that you can’t throw every 15 year old who ever raises a hood on the scrapheap. Push them, and if necessary, force them, in to a worthwile direction/career/trade/life… whatever is needed. Teenagers need that, and, in my experience, deep down, they want it.

    When I was that age, I needed that discipline, focus and direction. Often too, I needed the informed leadership of my elders. I would never admit it back then of course, but I was of glad it. I dread to think where I’d be today if I’d ever have actually won one of those teenage arguments with my parents!

    Surely our behavioural patterns can’t have changed that much in 16 years? Why can’t we now deal with an age-old problem of teenagers playing up because they need to be pushed/forced/enforced in to becoming adults. We’ve been doing it for generations… well, until today.

  29. First part of my life I spent fighting in the streets. It’s because of that, that I tend to error the other way now….up to a point. Yea avoid, walk away, run if possible and call the police. The store owner was the first person who should have called the police. Could be very different in the UK than the States, with respect to police action.

    You have to put thugs like that off balance….they could have easily been encouraged to come in the house. In the States then, you could have equalized the situation without even killing anyone, as long as they were in your house. Only difference is that in the States if they were gang members, you’d have retaliation to deal with…..which is tricky-much like the movie “Grand Torino”.

    In most states, your house is your castle and a place were you can draw a line in the sand. Let’s face it, if you live in a society where you cower inside your own dwelling, what would be the point? Might as well let them in and have what they want.

  30. Locking them up makes the problem worse, as institutions foster the same hatred and make things worse.

    The only answer is to stop poor parenting which often – but not always – leads to this spiral of neglect, social withdrawal and violence. A campaign of enforced sterilisation should work quite well…

    Mind you, it’s sort of happening already in the UK with the huge increase in chlamydia :-)

    1. Heh heh, I can’t actually say I disagree with anything you said there. I’ve long argued that the right to bear kids should be on a points basis, not an automatic right based on mere biological capability. My next door neighbour has 8 kids, and every one of them is socially damaged in some way. I’m wondering if it’s too late to arrange some 45th trimester abortions….

      The funny thing is, the woman is fat and stupid and the bloke is old and pig ugly. It makes you wonder how they can bear to be in the same room, let alone the same bed. It’s a triumph for the ol’ bag over the head technique!

      1. Situational descriptions like that sadden me….there’s more thought and regulation into owning a pet, than children.

  31. thanks a lot josh, i searched this movie for such a long time since i saw it once in the tv (arte)

  32. This attitude is to be expected, so long as we allow the church to breakdown our society, for its own protection,
    the churches of the world teach intolerance, under the guise of it being religious education. things will only change when sufficient numbers of people turn against the church, and demand that religious education be
    BANNED BY LAW. I DO NOT MYSELF HOLD OUT ANY
    HOPE THAT THIS WILL HAPPEN IN MY LIFETIME..
    SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED BY THE CHURCH, THAT IS OF COURSE AIDED AND ABETTED BY THE BBC. BLESS YOU ALL. LOVE RON ++++

  33. Honestly if sincerely threatened, I see no reason to make any qualm with harming/maiming/killing your attacker. In real violent situation one does not have luxury of treating the situation as anything less than a “fight to the death”. Having spent most of my life in seedy and violent parts of Moscow, living next to those of Solntsevskaya Brat’va and that sort, I can say that those who “er on the side of caution” often end up in coffins. If threatened, eliminate the threat. None but the weak will fault you.

  34. Its a shame to think had his father retaliated, those kids would have been protected by a lot of (bogus) human rights acts which inevitably give kids / teens a lot of freedoms, which they know that they have.

  35. Had the father attacked the bullies, the father would have been charged with child abuse since these punks were about 15. Calling the police would have been the correct response, even though the son’s actions provided us with personal satisfaction.

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